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#41
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On Thu, 27 May 2004 00:08:11 +0100, Kat
wrote in : In message , John writes Last year our mate Ken made lots of noises about requiring TfL to get on with cooling the tube, etc. It all seems to have gone quiet - anyone know whether any progress has been made? Only mention I've seen recently on the posters about carrying water in hot weather refers to "new technologies" for cooling the tube. Maybe they are looking into geothermal heat pumps... Or maybe they read our thread here a few years ago where we calculated the viability of using ice to cool carriages... -- Ivan Reid, Electronic & Computer Engineering, ___ CMS Collaboration, Brunel University. Room 40-1-B12, CERN KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty". |
#42
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In article , Stuart
writes Eh? how can water have a sell-by date. It's water, it doesn't go off. Wrong - it's bottled mineral water - they all have a sell/use by date. -- Andrew Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this communication can not be guaranteed. Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not associations or companies I am involved with. |
#43
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In article , Dave Arquati
writes John wrote: In article , M J Forbes writes "Gary Jenkins" wrote in message e.com... During the hot spell last week the announcer at Westminster Tube was advising passengers to carry bottled water with them. As far as I know the tube has been operating for over 100 yeras without any seriious incidents of dehydrated passengers. Have the operators now lost confidenc in their ability to get people to their destination within a reasonable time? For the last two summers, bottled water was being handed out at many central tube stations free of charge in the mornings, although I strongly suspect that this gesture was entirely at the expense of Volvic/Evian/Whoever, rather than being a LU or TFL-sponsored thing .... Matt Last year our mate Ken made lots of noises about requiring TfL to get on with cooling the tube, etc. It all seems to have gone quiet - anyone know whether any progress has been made? John One of his manifesto points is to have air-conditioning installed on the new subsurface fleet, thus bringing it to at least four lines (assuming the ELLX will use other, mainline stock - if it ever gets built). So what options exist? 1) air con trains - where does the heat go? 2) cool tunnels - heck of a lot to cool 3) cool stations - cools tunnels as well... Thoughts -- John Alexander, |
#44
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Stuart writes:
Eh? how can water have a sell-by date. It's water, it doesn't go off. It's in plastic bottles. Plastic can deteriorate, and probably leach into the water too. -- Mark Brader, Toronto | ... "reasonable system" is of course defined as | "any one *I've* ever used..." -- Steve Summit |
#45
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#47
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![]() "John" wrote in message What is the problem with having a heat pump to suck heat out of a deep tube platform to a liquid (water?) and then to pump the liquid to the surface and chill the liquid there for return to the platform? Any refrigeration engineers out there? -- Money. Also the equipment used will generate more heat. |
#48
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John Alexander:
I agree, the idea of cooling the trains on the tube lines is ridiculous until you extract heat from the stations and tunnel system first... Any sort of air-conditioning, to provide effective relief, would have to work no matter whether the train was on a surface, subsurface, or deep tube section. Therefore it would be necessary to air-condition the trains *as well* as applying measures to extract heat from the tunnels and stations. What is the problem with having a heat pump to suck heat out of a deep tube platform to a liquid (water?) and then to pump the liquid to the surface and chill the liquid there for return to the platform? As someone else said, it's just a matter of money. You either need to do something like that, or you need to move enough additional air through the tunnels and stations to ameliorate the heat buildup. The Channel Tunnel has a cold-water pipe running through each bore to absorb heat from the trains; the subway systems in New York and Toronto, on the other hand, without the deep and narrow tunnels that London has, run air-conditioned trains and let normal air circulation deal with the heat. Incidentally, a new air-conditioning system http://www.enwave.com is now coming into use for major downtown buildings here in Toronto, taking advantage of our location on Lake Ontario. Heat from these buildings is transferred into water being drawn from the lake for the city's drinking water system; the drinking water won't get significantly warmer than it now does in summer, because the water used for this purpose is coming from a new feed deeper in the lake where the temp- erature is always 4 Celsius (at which water is densest). Unfortunately, London doesn't have a Great Lake next to it... -- Mark Brader "That's what progress is for. Progress Toronto is for creating new forms of aggravation." -- Keith Jackson My text in this article is in the public domain. |
#49
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Mark Brader wrote:
snip Incidentally, a new air-conditioning system http://www.enwave.com is now coming into use for major downtown buildings here in Toronto, taking advantage of our location on Lake Ontario. Heat from these buildings is transferred into water being drawn from the lake for the city's drinking water system; the drinking water won't get significantly warmer than it now does in summer, because the water used for this purpose is coming from a new feed deeper in the lake where the temp- erature is always 4 Celsius (at which water is densest). Unfortunately, London doesn't have a Great Lake next to it... Yes, it does! According to LU's Environmental Report for 2003, they pump over 30 million litres of water out of the tunnels every day. The water originates either from the rising water table under London or from leaking water mains. -- Richard J. (to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address) |
#50
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On Sat, 29 May 2004 23:38:07 -0000, (Mark Brader) wrote:
snip Incidentally, a new air-conditioning system http://www.enwave.com is now coming into use for major downtown buildings here in Toronto, taking advantage of our location on Lake Ontario. Heat from these buildings is transferred into water being drawn from the lake for the city's drinking water system; the drinking water won't get significantly warmer than it now does in summer, because the water used for this purpose is coming from a new feed deeper in the lake where the temp- erature is always 4 Celsius (at which water is densest). Unfortunately, London doesn't have a Great Lake next to it... Not really a new system, as such. The Liverpool Post & Echo Building used/uses water pumped from the Mersey Tunnel (I think Birkenhead Road one that is) from about the early 1970's. Outfall is by the Peir Head Floats. Keith J Chesworth www.unseenlondon.co.uk www.blackpooltram.co.uk www.happysnapper.com www.boilerbill.com - main site www.amerseyferry.co.uk |
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