On Sun, 6 Jun 2004 23:35:25 +0100, Andrew P Smith
wrote:



Yes, Hemel has 6, Hatton Cross has 5, but neither are anything like the
Magic Roundabout in Swindon IMO.

But the Hemel one, at least, has the special sign as you approach it.
I've not used the others but the one in Hemel certainly *is* like the
Swindon one is described, only bigger and more complicated. So maybe
its the Swindon one that not a real "magic roundabout" :-)

"Rajesh Kakad \(BT\)" wrote in message ...
Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?

In New York it does NOT work well. The number of times I and other
people were nearly run over crossing the road by cars turning on a red
light was great. Im sure if in London it was introduced it would be
another nail in the coffin for the most effective form of public
transport, walking.

gs wrote in message ...
On Fri, 28 May 2004 13:45:43 +0000 (UTC), Rajesh Kakad (BT)
wrote:

Would it not be easier to have the same rule as in the USA, where they
can
turn right on a red signal?

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Of course the pedestrians and other cars on the green, have priority.

This would save time, reduce pollution (whilst waiting) and get traffic
moving, instead of sitting idle.

What does London say ?


Whilst we at it can we have flashing Amber traffic lights meaning give way
on traffic lights that are not as important during late evening
and early morning?

Like they do in Italy

How many times have you sat at a red light and nothing has passed through
before the light has gone green again?

also switch off pelican crossings after say 00.30 as people
have a habit of pressing the button as the pass them not intending to cross

anymore ideas?

All these ideas are in favour of the motorist. What about the
pedestrian? Not everyone in life will drive but everyone will walk.

If enough drivers just start turning left through red lights anyway the
police aren't going to take any notice and it will become normal. It'll be
just like law the forbidding people to use their mobile phones whilst
driving which has become a complete JOKE. Another example is cyclists
riding being 'allowed' to ride through red lights.

Freddy

Everyone speeds depsite its illegal and they get fined. This is not
the soloution to the problem as the autorties will simply put a camera
on every single traffic light and send you a £50 snap everytime people
go through one.
And ask for mobile phone users in cars I think your find most police
forces are having a trial period for the new law before cracking down.
I think your find people are being fined for using mobile phones while
driving but at the moment the police are letting the new law establish
itself before getting tough. Also like all driving laws some people
get away with it. Some don't.

"Rajesh Kakad \(BT\)" wrote in message news:c97fq7

So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

In general, I agree, but we do have a sort-of system where this is
allowed: green filter arrows.

This isn't the same can-turn-left-on-red-by-default but it's close
and it allows more flexibility: you can disable it if the traffic/
junction makes it unsafe to do so, and/or can change the timing
at certain times.

Do the USAns have filter arrows, or is it a Europe-specific thing ?

Aside: does anyone know why some traffic signals here show a
green filter arrow *AND* a solid green light simultaneoulsy,
given that the latter allows a superset of the filtered traffic
to "go". ?

Richard [in PO7]

gs wrote in message ...

Whilst we at it can we have flashing Amber traffic lights meaning give way
on traffic lights that are not as important during late evening
and early morning?

anymore ideas?


Like the idea. Traffic lights are too "hard" in this country: they
have either a STOP or a GO aspect, with nothing in between. There are
many situations in which a STOP is just being overcautious for the sake
of it. All this STOP/GOing (rather than a generally lower speed overall)
increases pollution and vehicle-wear.

We could have a system where a flashing RED preceeds a full
RED at the next junction, warning people to slow down because
they're going to have to stop soon. This would have to be arranged
so that if the flasher unit failed, it would default to solid red.

We could have variable speed limits: "slow to 15mph because the
signal ahead of you is RED" (and if you don't slow, a carstop comes
out of the road to apply the brakes)

also switch off pelican crossings after say 00.30 as people
have a habit of pressing the button as the pass them not intending to cross

We could have "cancel" buttons on pedestrian crossings in case
the crosser manages to get across before the lights turn in their
favor.

I'm somewhat surprised by this statement of yours though: it's been a
long time since I saw any vehicle stop at a RED pedestrian crossing
where there were no pedestrians.

In fact, I've noticed a general trend over the past twenty years or
so to treat some traffic signals as "less serious" than other ones,
(except in the paragraph below):

We could also have blue lights to augment the R/G/A ones, meaning
"emergency service using this lane" in order to get the idiots to
move out of the way when an Ecnalubma is trying to get past a bunch
of people who won't cross a red light to let it past despite the
fact that all the conflicting traffic has stopped specifically to
let the Ecnalubma through.


Richard [in PO7]

Annabel Smyth wrote in message

Wouldn't it, just! I would die of frustration if I had to drive in the
USA, where every single intersection, no matter how minor, has its
traffic lights..... (on ordinary streets, not motorways, of course - but
Brooklyn or New York.... yikes!).

Do they not have roundabouts in the USA, then ? I admit I've
never seen one but I wasn't looking anyway.

Roundabouts in the UK don't work as well as they ought: where
I live (in PE12) there is a huge A-road which carries about
3600 vehicles/hour, which juncs with three minor roads (about 10
vehicles/hour). The traffic from one axis of the A-road to the
other is continuous, so the traffic from the minor roads never
gets a look-in: you just have to hope to find a slow-coach on the
A-road and belt across like a mad persun. Not ideal, but otherwise
there's no way out (literally: there's no other exit from the villages).

Many roundabouts now have traffic signals, which rather defeats the
object. Some roundabouts are bidirectional and have two levels
of feeder roundabouts, and about three sets of traffic sigs in 100m.
I can't see the Americans putting up with that !

Then, of course, there are French roundabouts, where joining traffic
seems to have priority.

Richard [in PO7]

Rajesh Kakad:
So we should be able to turn LEFT at a RED light.

Richard Willis:
In general, I agree, but we do have a sort-of system where this is
allowed: green filter arrows.

... Do the USAns have filter arrows, or is it a Europe-specific thing ?

In North America, arrows are mostly used for protected left [= UK right
:-)] turns -- that is, the left-turning traffic has the right of way,
and all conflicting traffic has a red light. Perhaps the most common
way this is used is for straight-ahead traffic to have a red light in
all directions, while left turns in both directions from one of the two
streets have a green left arrow; in some jurisdictions a yellow arrow is
used to warn of the end of this phase; it is typically, but not always,
followed either by the regular green or by a green light that does not
apply to left-turning traffic. It works best when there is room for a
a separate lane to be designated for left-turning traffic approaching
the intersection.

I haven't driven enough in British cities to know whether the mirror-
image of this is a common pattern there.

Aside: does anyone know why some traffic signals here show a
green filter arrow *AND* a solid green light simultaneoulsy,
given that the latter allows a superset of the filtered traffic
to "go". ?

In North America, the combination of a green left arrow and an ordinary
green means that all moves are permitted, but the left turn is protected.
In Ontario and several other Canadian provinces, a flashing green is used
instead of this combination, with effectively the same meaning; but this
aspect is now being phased out, at least in Ontario. (Other meanings of
flashing green exist in other places, notably the province of British
Columbia.)

This response may, of course, be completely irrelevant to Richard's
question. If the meaning of the signal combination really is exactly
the same as the regular signal, maybe it is used just in case there are
people who think it might not be, and would not turn when the arrow was
dark.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "C and C++ are two different languages.
That's UK policy..." -- Clive Feather

My text in this article is in the public domain.

"mookie89" wrote in message news:IPkvc.5247

Also, our emergency vehicles have what's known as an OptiCon System on
board. Basically it is a very specific white high intensity strobe lamp
aimed slightly upward. At many USA intersections a little periscope
appearing apparatus is mounted just above the traffic light. That's the

Don't you get boy-racers, and other miscreants, attempting to
synthesize the correct light-frequency and thus give themselves priority
at junctions ?

We'd get that sort of thing here. My last job involved telemetry
via UHF radio. Other European countries apparently used it to
give emerg vehicles priority but it was apparently rejected for the
UK, because nefarious persuns would be able to defeat it, even when
we proposed a 200-years-to-break challenge-acknowledge protocol (it
was two-way) !

Michael Hoffman wrote in message

Solid green means that non-emergency vehicles may not legally cross the
road you are on (although they can turn right/left on red).

Are you sure about that ?

In Brentford, where the A4 joined the Ealing Road, the traffic
signals were arranged so that two conflicting flows would both
get a green simultaneously. This was some time ago and it
was the first I'd ever seen. I don't know how common conflicting
greens are.

A green doesn't mean that you *CAN* go; it just means "go if
it's clear" (i.e you should behave (when green) as if there
were no traffic sig there at all, and only proceed if you could see there
was no oncoming traffic)

Richard [in PO7]