The initial difficulty with Artics in this country was that under then
current legislation, passengers could not be carried in a trailer on public
highways.

Some fairly rudimentary artics, using a goods vehicle tractor unit with a
very box-like semi-trailer, had seen limited airport use previously.

Oxford operated the ex-Sheffield MAN's for some time. Drivers were given a
fairly comprehensive training programme, but the Ministry decreed that any
driver with an "all types" licence could drive them.

Reversing technique was relatively straightforward, but took some getting
used to. Rear axle steered in mirror formation to the front axle. When
reversing, you simply "drove" the other end. Not as simple as it sounds.

I cannot recal the fare collection arrangements, but as they settled on the
501 Blackbird Leys - Rail Station, it must have been near normal.

Robin Clare
"Ross" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Graham Harrison wrote in
, seen in uk.transport.buses:

[...] I know there were
some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something
about
couldn't charge fares on them).

That must have been a long time back, as I recall Midland Red (North)
and later Midland Red (West) charging (and collecting) fares on the
artics they got from South Yorks PTE, and I don't recall SYPTE or its
successors *not* charging (or collecting) fares on their original
artics (or their replacements).

I'm trying to remember exactly when it was SYPTE bought its first
artics, but I can't. MR(N) had ex-SYPTE artics by the mid 80's - I
remember them appearing at Birmingham's Bull Ring Bus Station from
Cannock in the days when I was a schoolkid moonlighting in the MRN
travel centre there!
--
Ross Hamilton, in Lincoln (UK)
From address *will* bounce

I always wondered what the reason was. Thanks.

So, is a double artic legal in the UK?

--
*****
*****The "return to" address embedded in this mail is wrong as an antispam
measure. Please address new mails or replies to
edwarddotharrison1atbtinternetdotcom replacing dot with a . and at
with an @*****
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Ross wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Graham Harrison wrote in
, seen in uk.transport.buses:

[...] I know there were
some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something
about
couldn't charge fares on them).

That must have been a long time back, as I recall Midland Red (North)
and later Midland Red (West) charging (and collecting) fares on the
artics they got from South Yorks PTE, and I don't recall SYPTE or its
successors *not* charging (or collecting) fares on their original
artics (or their replacements).

I'm trying to remember exactly when it was SYPTE bought its first
artics, but I can't. MR(N) had ex-SYPTE artics by the mid 80's

Ross,
2001-04 (DAK301-04V) deliveries started 09/1979.
MAN built the front half and Goppel (Augsburg) built the trailers.
Used on the 500 Clipper service (which was originally a free service).

Withdrawn 09/1981.
Returned to MAN (Swindon)
Loan to City of Oxford 02/82 to 10/82
Loan to Midland Red (Express) 10/82 at NEC Motor Show car parks
Loan to Midland Red West 01/83 to 12/83
Sold to Midland Red North in 01/84
2001 lent to Northern General 12/86 to 01/87
2004 lent to SYPTE 03/84 to 04/84
All withdrawn 02/87
Sold to Marlin Coast Bus Lines (The Beach Bus), Cairns, Queensland 03/87
2002 not operated and sold on to
Grafton-Yamba Bus Service, Northern New South Wales 09/89.

So now you know what happened to them

Regards
Dave Farrier

"David Farrier" wrote in message
...

Ross wrote in message
...
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Graham Harrison wrote in
, seen in uk.transport.buses:

[...] I know there were
some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something
about
couldn't charge fares on them).

Big Snip

There are pictures of 2001/05/06/10 on http://yorkshirebuses.photos.gb.com/

Keith.

In message , Ross
writes
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 11:34:26 +0000 (UTC), Graham Harrison wrote in
, seen in uk.transport.buses:

[...] I know there were
some "issues" with single artics when they first appeared (something about
couldn't charge fares on them).

That must have been a long time back, as I recall Midland Red (North)
and later Midland Red (West) charging (and collecting) fares on the
artics they got from South Yorks PTE, and I don't recall SYPTE or its
successors *not* charging (or collecting) fares on their original
artics (or their replacements).
I'm pretty sure that Graham was right, though and that when they were
introduced in Sheffield SYPTE were indeed unable to charge fares. (I
think that they ran on something called the "City Clipper" service in
Sheffield, a bit akin to WMPTE's "Centrebus".)

I also have a vague recollection of something similar happening in
Nottingham?

I'm trying to remember exactly when it was SYPTE bought its first
artics, but I can't. MR(N) had ex-SYPTE artics by the mid 80's - I
remember them appearing at Birmingham's Bull Ring Bus Station from
Cannock in the days when I was a schoolkid moonlighting in the MRN
travel centre there!

Ah, the old 853/854, ex Harper Brothers routes? :-) Didn't some of
those vehicles end up in Sydney?

Incidentally, on the earlier subject of trolleybuses reaching high
speeds, I travelled once on a trolleybus in the Czech Republic (in
Chomulotov, on the route to "Jerkov", would you believe?!) which ran on
a *motorway* for part of its length. Trying to imagine trolleybuses
taking to the Aston Expressway in Birmingham or the M32 in Bristol is
interesting!

--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ian Jelf wrote in message ...
snip

I'm pretty sure that Graham was right, though and that when they were
introduced in Sheffield SYPTE were indeed unable to charge fares. (I
think that they ran on something called the "City Clipper" service in
Sheffield, a bit akin to WMPTE's "Centrebus".)

I also have a vague recollection of something similar happening in
Nottingham?

Nottingham's free service was a political & environmental, not legal
decision,taken in the early 1970s. The 77/88 central circulars were
run for free to discourage car use in the city centre, the early
Leyland Nationals
used were often loaded to the gunwales and used to roll madly on tight
corners. The 88 had NCT livery with and orange roof and the 77 ditto
with a yellow roof;I suppose they were an ancestor of NCts current
route branding. The free services were such a success that NCT got
some seconhand Nationals from Plymouth to add to the fleet and once I
recall a 1963 Fleetline-NCME on the 88 route, a much more dignified
way to travel! The famous Lilac Leopards were also part of a park &
ride strategy, but there was a change of control in the parliament
house, and fares were charged on the 77/88 and the Lilac Leopards sold
off.

Stephen

In message , Stephen
Allcroft writes
Nottingham's free service was a political & environmental, not legal
decision,taken in the early 1970s. The 77/88 central circulars were
run for free to discourage car use in the city centre,
Thanks for the information, Stephen.

The famous Lilac Leopards were also part of a park &
ride strategy,
Now those I do remember. They had bus (rather than coach) seating,
looking most odd.

but there was a change of control in the parliament
house, and fares were charged on the 77/88 and the Lilac Leopards sold
off.
I remember quite a heated debate on that on "ATV Today" (now *that*
dates me if nothing else!).

Thanks again for "filling us (me) in".
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk