I've tried googling for a previous answer to this but couldn't find
one...

I have an Oyster pre pay card, which suits me very nicely since I
normally make 2 bus journeys a day, with very occasional tube
journeys.

A couple of times recently, I've got on a bus (at least once it was a
108, may have been both times) and the Oyster reader has been broken
(showing red light). The driver has either just waved me past, or
completely ignored me. So I've had a free journey.

But what would happen if an inspector got on? No problem for the
Oyster travelcard users, but presumably for prepay he'd check my card
and find no record of a recent use on this bus route. So would I be
liable for a penalty fare? Should I pay the cash fare to the driver
even if he doesn't ask me to (unfair on me, as this would mean 30p
extra for the bus company)? Or should I have a stash of saver tickets
for this purpose (which defeats the object of Oyster cards - paperless
ticketing)?

My view is that if the bus sets off with a known duff reader, then
that's their problem and they should accept the consequent loss of
revenue. But I'm not sure if this would "stand up in court"...

So I'd appreciate any suggestions you have!

cheers

Graham

"Graham Hick" wrote in message
om...
I've tried googling for a previous answer to this but couldn't find
one...

I have an Oyster pre pay card, which suits me very nicely since I
normally make 2 bus journeys a day, with very occasional tube
journeys.

A couple of times recently, I've got on a bus (at least once it was a
108, may have been both times) and the Oyster reader has been broken
(showing red light). The driver has either just waved me past, or
completely ignored me. So I've had a free journey.

But what would happen if an inspector got on? No problem for the
Oyster travelcard users, but presumably for prepay he'd check my card
and find no record of a recent use on this bus route. So would I be
liable for a penalty fare? Should I pay the cash fare to the driver
even if he doesn't ask me to (unfair on me, as this would mean 30p
extra for the bus company)? Or should I have a stash of saver tickets
for this purpose (which defeats the object of Oyster cards - paperless
ticketing)?

My view is that if the bus sets off with a known duff reader, then
that's their problem and they should accept the consequent loss of
revenue. But I'm not sure if this would "stand up in court"...

So I'd appreciate any suggestions you have!

cheers

Graham

I've too been waved passed by drivers on multiple occasions when the reader
was showing a red light. I would imagine that upon boarding, the ticket
inspectors would notice the red-light and wouldn't PF anybody with a pre-pay
Oyster.

DJ.

A couple of times recently, I've got on a bus (at least once it was a
108, may have been both times) and the Oyster reader has been broken
(showing red light). The driver has either just waved me past, or
completely ignored me. So I've had a free journey.

But what would happen if an inspector got on? No problem for the
Oyster travelcard users, but presumably for prepay he'd check my card
and find no record of a recent use on this bus route. So would I be
liable for a penalty fare? Should I pay the cash fare to the driver
even if he doesn't ask me to (unfair on me, as this would mean 30p
extra for the bus company)? Or should I have a stash of saver tickets
for this purpose (which defeats the object of Oyster cards - paperless
ticketing)?

I used "Ask Oyster" and received the reply...

In response to your query, in the situation that the Oyster reader is not
working, generally the bus driver will wave you on. In that situation they
should log that their reader is faulty, so if a Revenue Inspector gets on
they will understand the situation. Revenue Inspectors also carry hand held
Oyster readers so if they do scan your Oyster card and see that it is Pre
Pay they will be able to deduct the appropriate fare from your card.

If you are in a situation where the driver does make you pay, unfortunately
you will be required to pay the cash fare in order to travel. If you do
encounter this situation and have to pay the £1, we can refund the thirty
pence to you if you fill in a Refund of Fares form and send us the proof of
payment.

....which doesn't actually cover not having cash available but then I didn't
raise that point.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 at 15:33:15, Graham J wrote:

If you are in a situation where the driver does make you pay, unfortunately
you will be required to pay the cash fare in order to travel. If you do
encounter this situation and have to pay the £1, we can refund the thirty
pence to you if you fill in a Refund of Fares form and send us the proof of
payment.

...which doesn't actually cover not having cash available but then I didn't
raise that point.


How would the driver know you had pre-Pay on your card rather than a bus
pass or Travelcard, if his reader was faulty so he had no way of
telling?
--
Annabel Smyth
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/index.html
Website updated 6 June 2004

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 20:20:02 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:

How would the driver know you had pre-Pay on your card rather than a bus
pass or Travelcard, if his reader was faulty so he had no way of
telling?

The same way a MK Metro driver doesn't know[1] you have a valid pass
loaded onto your card when he has a dodgy ticket machine. The policy
here tends to be "if in doubt let it through", though, and this is the
policy TfL should be taking, AFAIAC. If their equipment doesn't work,
it's their problem, not the passenger's.

[1] You are supposed to carry a validation receipt - something which
would be simple to issue[2] for Oyster non-prepay but for some reason
TfL can't be bothered - but IMX most don't look at it.

[2] It could be collected from a ticket machine if the ticket was
loaded automatically.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

Annabel Smyth typed


How would the driver know you had pre-Pay on your card rather than a bus
pass or Travelcard, if his reader was faulty so he had no way of
telling?

I don't think he *can* know. I have a Bus Pass with some Pre-Pay. The
thought has occurred to me that when I flash my Oyster + Photocard at a
driver (and the Oyster reader shows a red light), the driver has no way
of knowing whether there is *anything at all* on my Oyster...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Although I work for the tube, I am sure if the Oyster card reader on the bus
isn't working no inspector is going to penalty fare you. As for how does
the driver know if you have a travelcard or pre-pay of course he doesn't and
even if you flash your receipt, the writing is so small it would take 10
seconds per customer just to examine them.

Steve

"Helen Deborah Vecht" wrote in message
...
Annabel Smyth typed


How would the driver know you had pre-Pay on your card rather than a bus
pass or Travelcard, if his reader was faulty so he had no way of
telling?

I don't think he *can* know. I have a Bus Pass with some Pre-Pay. The
thought has occurred to me that when I flash my Oyster + Photocard at a
driver (and the Oyster reader shows a red light), the driver has no way
of knowing whether there is *anything at all* on my Oyster...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

In response to your query, in the situation that the Oyster reader is not
working, generally the bus driver will wave you on. In that situation
they
should log that their reader is faulty, so if a Revenue Inspector gets on
they will understand the situation. Revenue Inspectors also carry hand
held
Oyster readers so if they do scan your Oyster card and see that it is Pre
Pay they will be able to deduct the appropriate fare from your card.

If you are in a situation where the driver does make you pay,
unfortunately
you will be required to pay the cash fare in order to travel. If you do
encounter this situation and have to pay the £1, we can refund the thirty
pence to you if you fill in a Refund of Fares form and send us the proof
of
payment.

I also used "Ask Oyster" to ask what happens when buses or trams are taken
out of service when you have used Pre-Pay. My concern being that you are
required to touch-in on a tramstop or on the bus for every journey which
would result in a charge, even if you wouldn't have been charged with paper
tickets. The reply...

As of yet there is no procedure in place to deal with buses or trams that
are taken out of service prematurely. You will still need to scan your card
when boarding a new tram or bus. To get a refund for the extra charges you
will need to either ring in or write to our refund department. They can be
contacted from 8am to 6pm, on 0845 330 9881 or alternatively you can write
into : Oyster card refunds, 55 Broadway SW1H 0BD.

....which doesn't sound ideal. I rather suspect that sooner or later the
charging model for Pre-Pay on buses and trams will have to change to allow
unlimited journeys within a certain time period.

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:55:28 +0100, "Graham J"
wrote:

I also used "Ask Oyster" to ask what happens when buses or trams are taken
out of service when you have used Pre-Pay.
[snip]
The reply...

As of yet there is no procedure in place to deal with buses or trams that
are taken out of service prematurely. You will still need to scan your card
when boarding a new tram or bus.

Which means using Saver Six tickets might be a better option. I wonder
if the bus driver would be happy to return the "Staff receipt only"
section when the bus short runs?!?


Cheers,

Jason.

Jason wrote:
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 16:55:28 +0100, "Graham J"
wrote:


I also used "Ask Oyster" to ask what happens when buses or trams are taken
out of service when you have used Pre-Pay.

[snip]

The reply...

As of yet there is no procedure in place to deal with buses or trams that
are taken out of service prematurely. You will still need to scan your card
when boarding a new tram or bus.


Which means using Saver Six tickets might be a better option. I wonder
if the bus driver would be happy to return the "Staff receipt only"
section when the bus short runs?!?


Cheers,

Jason.

Already tried this once before, when a s/b 70 terminated short at
Notting Hill Gate. Driver wasn't happy about giving me and my 4 friends
back our hexagons - and he gave us the wrong ones anyway (to be fair it
probably would've taken him ages to find the right ones, and a
continuing bus was waiting).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London