IIRC, the plan for the M25 was that it should have 4 service areas, of which
we now have 3 (South Mimms, Thurrock, Clackett Lane).

Logically, the 4th would sit somewhere around junction 10 (A3) or junction
11 (M3). As there is another bout of works around J11 at the moment, has
anyone heard if they plan to recitify the deficiency at the same time ? Or,
for that matter, ever?


Bob Martin
--
mailto

"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...
IIRC, the plan for the M25 was that it should have 4 service areas, of
which
we now have 3 (South Mimms, Thurrock, Clackett Lane).

Logically, the 4th would sit somewhere around junction 10 (A3) or junction
11 (M3). As there is another bout of works around J11 at the moment, has
anyone heard if they plan to recitify the deficiency at the same time ?
Or,
for that matter, ever?

Given that the south-west quarter of the M25 is the most intensively used,
it's surprising that it wasn't the first to get a service area. It's also
surprising that there aren't signs at each junction on the M25 to the
nearest off-motorway services where you could at least get a cup of coffee
and a Mars Bar, and go to the loo.

There seems to have been a change in the design of motorway service stations
in recent years. Originally (with the exception of Scratchwood at the
southern end of the M1) two service stations have always been built - one
serving each direction with no vehicle link between the two. Now (M40
services, M25 services) one service station is built which is reached by
coming right off the motorway at a junction - this is probably more
efficient as it avoids duplication and allows the services to be used by
non-motorway traffic too. I wonder why this wasn't done from the start.

It's also surprising that there aren't signs at each junction on the M25
to the
nearest off-motorway services where you could at least get a cup of coffee
and a Mars Bar, and go to the loo.

Of course there's no reason this concept would only need to be confined to
the M25 - at almost all US Interstate exits there is signage to nearest
available Fuel, Food and Lodging, both as lists as you approach the exit,
and as directions from the slip road.

Dspite the fact this has to be a *very* low cost solution (after all, its
just a bit of research, and some signage), I doubt it would ever happen.

Undoubtedly, the existing service areas operators would go out of their way
to lobby for killing the proposal before it started, even if it were
intended only to be used in areas where there are no service area: their
underlying fear would be it could lead to a groundswell of support for
widening the concept to areas where it could cause competition with what
they regard as their god (or, at least, Department for Transport -- DfT)
given right to hugely over-charge consumers at existing service areas.

So I doubt that DfT, even working to a Government that allegedly isn't in
the back pockets of "big business", would have the guts to introduce the
concept in the face of such probable opposition. Indeed, it could well be
that such an obvious idea has already been considered and rejected for this
reason, I suppose!

"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...

signage to nearest
available Fuel, Food and Lodging, both as lists as you approach the exit,
and as directions from the slip road.

Dspite the fact this has to be a *very* low cost solution (after all, its
just a bit of research, and some signage), I doubt it would ever happen.

I can think of several reasons why it won't happen that don't rely on
conspiracy theories.

How do you define 'nearest'? As the crow flies; by road; in time taken? I
can see arguments between petrol stations and hotels about who should be on
the list as nearest.

The signs will need to be kept up-to-date because the last thing someone
running low on fuel needs is to follow the signs off the motorway to a place
that has shut down.

Also motorway service stations are open 24 hours whereas most non-motorway
petrol stations aren't so opening time information will have to put on the
signs, and this would also have to be kept up-to-date. As the price of fuel
on motorway service announcement signs is no longer displayed, presumably
because of the effort required, it isn't something I'd rely on happening.

Dave

In article , Dave Liney
writes

Also motorway service stations are open 24 hours whereas most non-motorway
petrol stations aren't so opening time information will have to put on the
signs, and this would also have to be kept up-to-date. As the price of fuel
on motorway service announcement signs is no longer displayed, presumably
because of the effort required, it isn't something I'd rely on happening.

Dave

When the M40 was first extended there were no service areas and signs
were provided across Oxon and Warks to local fuel stations with details
of their opening hours.
--
Andrew
Electronic communications can be altered and therefore the integrity of this
communication can not be guaranteed.
Views expressed in this communication are those of the author and not
associations or companies I am involved with.

"Dave Liney" wrote in message
...

"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...

signage to nearest
available Fuel, Food and Lodging, both as lists as you approach the
exit,
and as directions from the slip road.

Dspite the fact this has to be a *very* low cost solution (after all,
its
just a bit of research, and some signage), I doubt it would ever happen.

I can think of several reasons why it won't happen that don't rely on
conspiracy theories.

How do you define 'nearest'? As the crow flies; by road; in time taken? I
can see arguments between petrol stations and hotels about who should be
on
the list as nearest.

The signs will need to be kept up-to-date because the last thing someone
running low on fuel needs is to follow the signs off the motorway to a
place
that has shut down.

Also motorway service stations are open 24 hours whereas most non-motorway
petrol stations aren't so opening time information will have to put on the
signs, and this would also have to be kept up-to-date. As the price of
fuel
on motorway service announcement signs is no longer displayed, presumably
because of the effort required, it isn't something I'd rely on happening.

Dave




I agree it isn't a conspiracy :-) but it's already happened on A routes.
"Local services" signs are quite common followed by either a "not 24 hours"
or "24 hours".

Personally, I tend to drive further to get to the motorway services rather
than use sometimes decidedly average local offerings.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 19:26:54 +0100, "JB"
wrote:

Personally, I tend to drive further to get to the motorway services rather
than use sometimes decidedly average local offerings.

This never used to be the case for me, given how dreary they used to
be - however, I must say that I was impressed with the obviously
newly-built services at South Mimms yesterday - a bright, airy
building, spotlessly clean, lots of seats and a good range of
eateries. The railway would do well to look at[1] using the same kind
of design for their concourses.

[1] Manchester Piccadilly is in a similar style, and is very
impressive - only problem is the lack of seating.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

I can think of several reasons why it won't happen that don't rely on
conspiracy theories.

I'm not actually evincing a conspiracy theory, merely accepting the reality
that the words Bernard Woolley from (the written version of) "Yes, Minister"
are as true now as they were 20 years ago:

"Every Department acts for the powerful sectional interests with whom
they
have a permanent relationship"

Thus DfT is always going to be more swayed by the (likely) views of service
area operators, who will be known to them, than the motorists, who are an
amorphous mass.

How do you define 'nearest'? As the crow flies; by road; in time taken? I
can see arguments between petrol stations and hotels about who should be
on
the list as nearest.

The signs will need to be kept up-to-date because the last thing someone
running low on fuel needs is to follow the signs off the motorway to a
place
that has shut down.

Also motorway service stations are open 24 hours whereas most non-motorway
petrol stations aren't so opening time information will have to put on the
signs, and this would also have to be kept up-to-date.

Well, if American cousins can manage this, it would be sad if the consensus
was that it was beyond the capabilities of the British :-(

Also motorway service stations are open 24 hours whereas most
non-motorway
petrol stations aren't so opening time information will have to put on
the
signs, and this would also have to be kept up-to-date.

Well, if American cousins can manage this, it would be sad if the
consensus
was that it was beyond the capabilities of the British :-(



In my somewhat limited experience, the USA example is no different than
here. They tend not to have on freeway service areas and those signs you
talk about tend to lead you to the big chains, not the mom&pop everyone is
usually so proud of.

"Dave Liney" wrote the following in:



"Bob Martin" wrote in message
...

signage to nearest
available Fuel, Food and Lodging, both as lists as you approach
the exit, and as directions from the slip road.

Dspite the fact this has to be a *very* low cost solution (after
all, its just a bit of research, and some signage), I doubt it
would ever happen.

I can think of several reasons why it won't happen that don't rely
on conspiracy theories.

How do you define 'nearest'? As the crow flies; by road; in time
taken? I can see arguments between petrol stations and hotels
about who should be on the list as nearest.

Not a particularly massive issue. Distance by road would seem a fairly
sensible way to decide it. I don't know why you even suggested distance
as the crow flies, because that would really have no relevance to the
motorist.

The signs will need to be kept up-to-date because the last thing
someone running low on fuel needs is to follow the signs off the
motorway to a place that has shut down.

This is hardly likely to be a massive task. I wouldn't have thought
these things change all that frequently.

Also motorway service stations are open 24 hours whereas most
non-motorway petrol stations aren't so opening time information
will have to put on the signs, and this would also have to be kept
up-to-date.

I've seen signs for non 24-hour service stations before. They just say
"non-24 hour".

As the price of fuel on motorway service announcement
signs is no longer displayed, presumably because of the effort
required, it isn't something I'd rely on happening.

Surely the opening hours of a service station are more constant than
the price of fuel?

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