This reminds me of Matthew Parris' editorial in The Times a while back
(some time in early Feb 2003, IIRC), advocating free buses in London.

Didn't Ken try to introduce a very low flat fare (5 or 10p) when he was
leader of the GLC, only to get it squashed by one of the Borough Councils in
a court case?

Don't know about that one, but Sheffield certainly made their buses
free, much to the chagrin of the MP for neighbouring districts of
Derbyshire, a certain Matthew Parris.

Robin Mayes wrote:
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message
...

Whilst the Fare's Fare scheme was in operation passenger numbers
increased markedly, and fell even more noticably when the High
Court's fare increase was imposed.

And today we are still suffering from the legacy of increased wear
caused by Fare's Fare passenger increase and reduction in asset
replacement budget.

IIRC LT's budget was been restricted very much earlier than the early
eighties. The Fare's Fare project only lasted a few months.

If you can find a copy, Paul Garbutt's book "London Transport and the
Politicians" makes interesting reading.

On 6 Jul 2004 14:04:32 -0700, (James) wrote:

Don't know about that one, but Sheffield certainly made their buses
free,

ISTR free travel was offered on bendybuses because of legal problems
with their introduction in the UK.

Sheffield also used to have a free tram service, but then TPTB noticed
and introduced conductors!
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"James" wrote in message
m...

Don't know about that one, but Sheffield certainly made their buses
free, much to the chagrin of the MP for neighbouring districts of
Derbyshire, a certain Matthew Parris.

Sheffield's buses were not free, but bus and train fares in the People's
Republic of South Yorkshire were very low and were subsidised by the rates.
People living just over the Derbyshire border had rates at something like
half the level of those in Sheffield, and were very happy about it. As I
recall it, the bus fare from Sheffield to Barnsley was about 22p and the
train fare 33p, with the town services in Barnsley and Sheffield about 5p.
This was about the time when London tube fares were about 50p for one of the
Inner Zones.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 21:38:37 +0100, "Robin Mayes"
wrote:


"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message
...

Whilst the Fare's Fare scheme was in operation passenger numbers increased
markedly, and fell even more noticably when the High Court's fare increase
was imposed.

And today we are still suffering from the legacy of increased wear caused by
Fare's Fare passenger increase and reduction in asset replacement budget.

How do you work that one out? Fares Fair was back in 1981 and lasted
until 1982 IIRC. I don't see how a short lived fare subsidy scheme can
have the effects you mention.

Many other factors came into play after 1981 that affected the ridership
levels on LUL - mostly the Lawson boom up to 1987 which pushed usage up
to record levels.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 16:38:02 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 at 15:54:08, Henry wrote:

Didn't Ken try to introduce a very low flat fare (5 or 10p) when he was
leader of the GLC, only to get it squashed by one of the Borough Councils in
a court case?

Long time ago, but I have a vague recollection.


Yes, he halved the then Tube fare, and the good people of Bromley, not
having the Tube, yelped loudly about having to pay an increase in the
rates (as it then was) to pay for it, and sued - and won. Ken, sadly,
had to increase fares again. I don't remember what he wanted to do
about the buses, though.

As I have the Fares Fair leaflet here are some sample prices (new fare
being the Fares Fair price)

Zone 1 (West end & City in those days) - old fare 80p, new fare 30p

Euston to Balham (Z1-3) - old fare 95p, new fare 50p

Hounslow Central to Holborn (Z1-4) - old fare £1.25, new fare 70p

Hornchurch to Mile End (Z2-6) - old fare £1.10, new fare 80p

On the buses the fares were

short hop - 10p
One zone - 20p, weekly bus pass £2, monthly £7.50
Two zones - 30p, weekly bus pass £3, monthly £11
three or more zones - 40p, weekly bus pass £4, monthly £14.50

Travelcards did not exist at this point so a season ticket comparison
isn't really valid.

Post the Bromley judgement fares doubled but on 22/5/83 "Just the
Ticket" was launched with brought about a fares reduction and the
introduction of Travelcards.

Tube single ticket prices as follows (post fares fair prices in
brackets)

Z1 - 40p (down from 40p-70p)
1 zone but not Z1 - 30p (40p-80p)
2 zones - 50p (60p-£1.20)
3 zones - 80p (80p-£2)
4 zones - £1 (£1.20-£2.80)
5 zones - £1.30 (£1.60-£3.20)

Buses as follows

short hop - 20p (no change)
Z1 - 40p (down from 40p-60p),
1 zone but not Z1 - 30p (40p), weekly bus pass reduced from £4-£2.80
2 zones - 50p (60p-80p), weekly bus pass reduced from £6 to £4.70.
3 zones - 70p (80p) - maximum fare - travelcard prices applied.

Sunday maximum fare reduced from 40p to 30p

Weekly Travelcards

Z1 - £4
1 zone not Z1 - £2.80
2 zones - £4.70
3 zones - £7.40
4 zones - £9.40
All zones - £12

HTIOI
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:

On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 16:38:02 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:


On Tue, 6 Jul 2004 at 15:54:08, Henry wrote:


Didn't Ken try to introduce a very low flat fare (5 or 10p) when he was
leader of the GLC, only to get it squashed by one of the Borough Councils in
a court case?

Long time ago, but I have a vague recollection.



Yes, he halved the then Tube fare, and the good people of Bromley, not
having the Tube, yelped loudly about having to pay an increase in the
rates (as it then was) to pay for it, and sued - and won. Ken, sadly,
had to increase fares again. I don't remember what he wanted to do
about the buses, though.


As I have the Fares Fair leaflet here are some sample prices (new fare
being the Fares Fair price)

Zone 1 (West end & City in those days) - old fare 80p, new fare 30p

Euston to Balham (Z1-3) - old fare 95p, new fare 50p

Hounslow Central to Holborn (Z1-4) - old fare £1.25, new fare 70p

Hornchurch to Mile End (Z2-6) - old fare £1.10, new fare 80p

On the buses the fares were

short hop - 10p
One zone - 20p, weekly bus pass £2, monthly £7.50
Two zones - 30p, weekly bus pass £3, monthly £11
three or more zones - 40p, weekly bus pass £4, monthly £14.50

Travelcards did not exist at this point so a season ticket comparison
isn't really valid.

Post the Bromley judgement fares doubled but on 22/5/83 "Just the
Ticket" was launched with brought about a fares reduction and the
introduction of Travelcards.

(snip)

Interestingly, now there are only two boroughs without a TfL rail-based
service - Bexley and Kingston.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London