Aidan Stanger wrote:

Does anyone know what the running cost difference between Routemasters
and their replacements is? Even if the Routemaster's no faster, its
extra cost of a conductor is offset by fuel savings (and with oil prices
going the way they are, I'm sure that must be significant). And some of
these new buses are so poorly ventilated - if you want to do better than
a Routemaster, you really need air conditioning, so unless you're happy
for then to be replaced by junk, you should include the costs of running
that in your calculation...

Yesterday I checked the weights of some buses. RMs are 7t 5cwt, RMLs
7t 15cwt, as any fule kno, but I think a tonne is a few % less than a
ton, so say 8 tonnes for a RML.

High floor rear-engined double-deckers are around 10 tonnes; low-floor
11.5 to over 12. Bendis are 16 and a half - over twice the weight of a
RML.

Fuel consumption in London is roughly proportional to weight - but
bear in mind that 72 passengers weigh about 4 tonnes.

My best guess is that about a third to a half of the cost of the
conductor is covered by fuel savings. The real question is how much of
the rest is covered by reduced vandalism.

The only valid reason for withdrawing RMs now is if they are falling
apart. Actually some may be, but all of them?

Colin McKenzie

--
The great advantage of not trusting statistics is that
it leaves you free to believe the damned lies instead!

"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message
...

The only valid reason for withdrawing RMs now is if they are falling
apart. Actually some may be, but all of them?

They've mostly had three new heads and two new handles. TfL have decided
that payment off-bus is the way to go, and that the benefits of the
articulated single-decker are speed of loading, ease of access, and very
high crush capacity.

The RM and its clones have to have a conductor to supervise boarding and
getting off, even if fares are paid off-bus, and the lower deck has a
limited capacity, because people won't climb the stairs. Keep enough of them
for a tourist free-service along Oxford Street, and get rid of the rest of
them.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

"Colin McKenzie" wrote in message
...
Aidan Stanger wrote:


The only valid reason for withdrawing RMs now is if they are falling
apart. Actually some may be, but all of them?

Colin McKenzie

--
The great advantage of not trusting statistics is that
it leaves you free to believe the damned lies instead!


Apparently the scrap men don't like buying up the Routemasters simply
because they are so difficult to break up. They take about 12 hours per
vehicle compared to other buses that take about 3 hours. (figures based on
something that someone said a few months ago so they may be innaccurat...
but you get the gist?)

Nick

In article , Colin
McKenzie writes
Yesterday I checked the weights of some buses. RMs are 7t 5cwt, RMLs 7t
15cwt, as any fule kno, but I think a tonne is a few % less than a ton,
so say 8 tonnes for a RML.

1 ton = 2240 lbs
1 tonne = 2204.6 lbs

So 1.6% less.

7t15cwt = 7.75 tons = 7.874 tonnes
7t 5cwt = 7.25 tons = 7.366 tonnes

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:43:54 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:

I mourn the demise of the conductor

I don't. Having a conductor means they have to move around the bus,
and that means crush-loading isn't possible, and you can't stand just
because you want to because you're only going two stops.

Off-bus ticketing is the answer, though those TfL machines are of a
very poor design; counterintuitive and unreliable. Oyster will
certainly help matters, though it'd be good to push the Saver 6 a bit
harder as well.

Granted RMs are awkward for pushchairs, and
impossible for wheelchair-users, but those who have other forms of
disability used to be able to rely on a helping hand from the conductor,
who would get them on and see them safely seated before allowing the bus
to move off. Sigh....

It's sad that in London and the other big cities there's such a safety
issue with the driver emerging from his cab to help with such things,
as you often see elsewhere. However, merely waiting for someone to
sit down before departure will probably cover that in most cases.

But no, not bendy buses - they make me
feel sick

Why? They're only elongated single-deckers.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:43:54 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:

I mourn the demise of the conductor

I don't. Having a conductor means they have to move around the bus,
and that means crush-loading isn't possible, and you can't stand just
because you want to because you're only going two stops.

Off-bus ticketing is the answer, though those TfL machines are of a
very poor design; counterintuitive and unreliable. Oyster will
certainly help matters, though it'd be good to push the Saver 6 a bit
harder as well.



And those TFL machines don't accept notes

Chris wrote:

And those TFL machines don't accept notes

Nor do bus drivers!

Don't they? Never had a problem paying with a £5 or £10


"Stuart" wrote in message
...
Chris wrote:

And those TFL machines don't accept notes

Nor do bus drivers!

In message , Stuart
writes
wrote:

The Business
1st August 2004
Business Platform by Ian Watson
Why must the last bell sound for proper buses?

Proper buses that are cramped and uncomfortable.

Never mind the infirm, those of us over 6 foot can't use them properly!

Give me a bendy bus any day

Speaking of which, I saw a bendi-coach the other day; I didn't realise
that such beasts existed... Mega-something or other IIRC.
--
Kat