On 16 Aug 2004 01:14:46 -0700, (Boltar) wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 15:48:25 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 at 13:01:57, SJCWHUK
wrote:

They
could not allow 1 day travelcards because the train operators haven't all
come over to Oyster card.

Um - I don't quite see why not, since you can use period Travelcards on
national rail, within the relevant zones. What am I missing?

this is a complex issue but I'll try to explain.

If you had one day travelcards stored on the Oyster card you need to
tell a machine to activate it on the card as there could be several
cards of different zone combinations stored on the card and a dumb
device like a reader cannot know which one you want to activate. This

As I've mentioned in another post , it doesn't have to know. The oyster logs
the max & min zones travelled in for a given date and the next date you travel
a travelcard for the appropriate zones is deducted from the the stored
cards for that previous trip. Obviously the card will have to know the max and
min zones of all the cards it has stored so someone can't travel to zone 6 on
a day when they only have zone 4 cards but given that your average oyster card
has more processing power than a 1980s home computer this isn't going to tax
its abilities much. However all LUL seem to use it for is to either store a
pair of dates for monthly/yearly cards or stored a cash value. Thats it. What
a waste of technology.

You are forgetting that you need to record and validate and deduct
payment TODAY to demonstrate that you actually have an authority to
travel. There has to be a link to conditions of carriage and legal
entitlement to travel. There has to be consideration in return for the
right to travel.

While I take the point about processing power on the card the London
fares system and structure is amazingly complicated and the journey /
modal combinations are huge. Therefore a huge effort has to be made to
get the system to work fairly and accurately for those using it. The
last thing Oyster needs is a huge system failure or incorrect processing
of entirely legitimate journeys made by considerable numbers of people.
TfL and NR operators also need to be completely sure the system is not
wide open to fraudulent use.

The fact that the organisational environment for national rail is also
going to change cannot be helping matters in some ways - this is just
added complexity for the system to deal with. I've been involved in
enough fares revisions in the past with the need to clearly understand
the commercial rules to appreciate that the card processing power is the
least of peoples' concerns.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote in message . ..
You are forgetting that you need to record and validate and deduct
payment TODAY to demonstrate that you actually have an authority to

Why? As long as the system knows the card is valid for travel on the given
date I don't see any problems.

travel. There has to be a link to conditions of carriage and legal
entitlement to travel. There has to be consideration in return for the
right to travel.

Sorry , I've no idea what you're on about. As far as the passenger is concerned
he would put N travelcards on his oyster and it would allow him to travel for
N days of his choosing.

TfL and NR operators also need to be completely sure the system is not
wide open to fraudulent use.

If people are going to defraud the system then they will. IMO the part of
the system that allows yearly travelcards is going to look for more attractive
to the hackers that something that would allow daily ones. Besides , if you
really want to get away without paying you just push through the gates. Its
not hard and I've had to do it occasionally when my paper ticket packed up and
there was no one around to help.

added complexity for the system to deal with. I've been involved in
enough fares revisions in the past with the need to clearly understand
the commercial rules to appreciate that the card processing power is the
least of peoples' concerns.

Apparently passenger convenience isn't high on the list either.

B2003

A bit too bitter for my taste.


"Boltar" wrote in message
om...
Paul Corfield wrote in message
. ..
You are forgetting that you need to record and validate and deduct
payment TODAY to demonstrate that you actually have an authority to

Why? As long as the system knows the card is valid for travel on the given
date I don't see any problems.

travel. There has to be a link to conditions of carriage and legal
entitlement to travel. There has to be consideration in return for the
right to travel.

Sorry , I've no idea what you're on about. As far as the passenger is
concerned
he would put N travelcards on his oyster and it would allow him to travel
for
N days of his choosing.

TfL and NR operators also need to be completely sure the system is not
wide open to fraudulent use.

If people are going to defraud the system then they will. IMO the part of
the system that allows yearly travelcards is going to look for more
attractive
to the hackers that something that would allow daily ones. Besides , if
you
really want to get away without paying you just push through the gates.
Its
not hard and I've had to do it occasionally when my paper ticket packed up
and
there was no one around to help.

added complexity for the system to deal with. I've been involved in
enough fares revisions in the past with the need to clearly understand
the commercial rules to appreciate that the card processing power is the
least of peoples' concerns.

Apparently passenger convenience isn't high on the list either.

B2003

"SJCWHUK" wrote in message ...
A bit too bitter for my taste.

Oh I'm sorry. Perhaps you should go off and read uk.cute.fluffy.bunnies instead
then?

B2003

"SJCWHUK" wrote in message ...
A bit too bitter for my taste.

Oh I'm sorry. Perhaps you should go off and read uk.cute.fluffy.bunnies instead
then?

B2003

LOL

Now that is spooky! I have a friend who calls herself a cute fluffy
bunny!!!


"Boltar" wrote in message
om...
"SJCWHUK" wrote in message
...
A bit too bitter for my taste.

Oh I'm sorry. Perhaps you should go off and read uk.cute.fluffy.bunnies
instead
then?

B2003