In article , (Alan \(in Brussels\)) wrote:

Is it only me who thinks 'High St. Ken' sounds more like the name of a
church ;-)

Just been reading John Simpson's autobiography - he refers to an Iraqi at
a dinner-party seeking to pretend he knows all about England (though he
thinks Suffolk = Sussex). He finally gives the game away with "When all this
is over, I would love to see Edgware Road again. And High Saint Kensington."

--
Peter Beale

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 00:05:00 +0100, Peter Beale wrote:

In article , (Alan \(in Brussels\)) wrote:

Is it only me who thinks 'High St. Ken' sounds more like the name of a
church ;-)

Just been reading John Simpson's autobiography - he refers to an Iraqi at
a dinner-party seeking to pretend he knows all about England (though he
thinks Suffolk = Sussex).

I doubt the average American, or ecen European, has heard of Suffolk or
Sussex. I'd wager a good number of Brits confuse them.

In article , David
Boothroyd writes
Incidentally are there only two streets in London which have fractional
numbers in them? (Balls Pond Road and London Wall)

There is, or was, a cluster of shops just off Upper Ground[*] that went
something like 0, 1/3, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2.
[*] A quick Google suggests that it may be Gabriel's Wharf.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

"Paul Weaver" wrote in message
news

I doubt the average American has heard of Suffolk or Sussex.

I suspect the average American has a Suffolk County *and* a Sussex County
within 100 miles of their home.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"Clive D. W. Feather" wrote in message
...
In article , David
Boothroyd writes

Incidentally are there only two streets in London which have fractional
numbers in them? (Balls Pond Road and London Wall)

There is, or was, a cluster of shops just off Upper
Ground[*] that went something like 0, 1/3, 1/2, 1, 1 1/2, 2.

[*] A quick Google suggests that it may be Gabriel's Wharf.

They should have done something like that at the east end of Allendale
Avenue, N3. [I can't make head nor tail of the random numbering system they
have used.]

Incidentally, in Park View (Tokyngton) number 1 is at the dead end!

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message , David
Boothroyd writes
Incidentally are there only two streets in London which have fractional
numbers in them? (Balls Pond Road and London Wall)

No, Dowgate Hill in the City has some for one.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG, Birmingham, UK
Registered "Blue Badge" Tourist Guide for
London & the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Paul Weaver:
I doubt the average American has heard of Suffolk or Sussex.

John Rowland:
I suspect the average American has a Suffolk County *and* a Sussex County
within 100 miles of their home.

I was curious enough to look this up. It turns out that there is only
one area in the US that's within 100 miles of both a Suffolk County
(namely the one that forms the eastern half of Long Island) and a
Sussex County (namely the one that forms the northern tip of New Jersey.

The western arc bounding the zone runs more or less through the centers
of Atlantic City NJ, Philadelphia PA, and Allentown PA; it passes
through the Catskills and crosses the Hudson River north of Hudson NY,
and ends near the MA/CT/NY common boundary point. Scranton PA, Wilkes-
Barre PA, and Albany NY are all a bit outside the zone.

The eastern boundary arc is shorter (more of it is at sea), running from
the point mentioned above, more or less though the center of Hartford CT,
and clipping off the east end of Long Island, ending at Southampton NY.

The zone therefore includes the entire metropolitan area of New York City,
half of those of Philadelphia and Hartford, and most of the rest of New
Jersey. Probably about 10-12% of the US population.

(There is one other Suffolk County, which includes the city of Boston,
Massachusetts, but the only places that are within 100 miles of it
and Sussex County NJ are also within the area described above. There
are two other Sussex Counties; one forms the southern 1/3 of Delaware and
the other is in southeastern Virginia, a rural district south of Peters-
burg. Neither of these is near enough to a Suffolk county to matter.)

ObLondon: from Toronto's international airport you can fly nonstop to
either of two different Londons.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "These Millennia are like buses."
--Arwel Parry

My text in this article is in the public domain.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004, Alan (in Brussels) wrote:

"Dave Arquati" a écrit dans le message de
...
John Rowland wrote:
From: Benjamin Lukoff )

If the actual name of the street is KENSINGTON HIGH STREET, why is
the station called HIGH STREET KENSINGTON?

Only 54 months late, but I think I've figured it out.

The London County Council decided at some point (1930s I think) that
it was going to ensure there were no duplicate road names in its
area, and took to renaming vast tracts of the county of London. I
suspect that prior to this date, Kensington High St, Clapham High
St, Stepney High St etc, and the biggest mouthful of them all St
Johns Wood High St, had all been called "High St". Obviously "High
St" would have been a crap name for a station. The station could
just as well have been called ""Kensington High St" but they
happened to pick "High St Kensington" instead. When the streets were
renamed, all of the High Streets in London had the district name
prefixed, creating the present anomaly. I suppose this was also when
the mouthful "Stoke Newington Church Street" was created.

Interesting, I've wondered that too... the problem is that many people
- especially visitors or newcomers - use Tube stations as landmarks,
so just as when someone refers to "Tottenham Court Road" they
invariably mean St Giles Circus, most students at Imperial refer to
Kensington High St as High St Ken. It seems to roll off the tongue a
bit better too.

Is it only me who thinks 'High St. Ken' sounds more like the name of a
church ;-)

Or a mayor.

tom

--
When I see a man on a bicycle I have hope for the human race. -- H. G. Wells

In the message : ...
Piccadilly Pilot wrote:
"Dave Arquati" write
Richard J. wrote:
Alan (in Brussels) wrote:


IMHO the basic problem is that general English usage requires any
additional word(s) specifying which of various options applies to
precede the generic name (IOW: we say eg 'East Acton' rather than
'Acton East')

But we have Dagenham East, Hounslow West, Bromley South, Penge East,
...

I wonder whether the "East Acton" form is used where such a district
already existed, and the "Bromley South" form was a new term invented
by the railway. But where one such station exists, others with the
same town name seem to adopt the same order. Are there in fact any
places with both forms in use at different stations, e.g. (fictitious
example) Surbiton South and West Surbiton ?


Acton Town & Acton Central plus North, South, East & West Acton (not
forgetting poor little Acton Main Line, just to keep the set complete
:-) )

There are also the Ealings; North, South, West, Common and Broadway.

North Wembley but Wembley Central, Stadium & Park. East Finchley & West
Finchley, but Finchley Central. (Are there any "Central Something"
stations instead of "Something Central"?)

No 'Central something' stations (not even a 'Central Park' somewhere?), but
plenty of 'Central something' thoroughfares: according to eg p. 293 (index)
of the 2000 OS/Philips London Street atlas there are 5 cases of 'Central
Avenue' in different postal districts and another 7 in named boroughs. Also
a similar frequency of 'Central Parade' as well as a sprinking of the usual
other types: Ct., Gdns., Rd., St., Way...

And that perhaps provides an alternative way of answering the OP's question:
the rule for street names in English is that the local identification (if
any) always precedes the type of throroughfare. Perhaps one day a new
station will take its name from the adjacent existing street, and then we'll
see which rules apply.

Regards,

- Alan (in Brussels - mind the spamtrap)

In article , (Alan \(in Brussels\)) wrote:

And that perhaps provides an alternative way of answering the OP's
question:
the rule for street names in English is that the local identification
(if any) always precedes the type of throroughfare.

A frequent exception to that is where a street has been split in two by
a new ring-road or the like. E.g. in Salisbury George St and George St
South, Meadow Rd and Meadow Rd South either side of A36 Churchill
Way, in Coventry Woodside and Wainbody Aves North and South
either side of A45 Kenpas Highway.

--
Peter Beale