On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:10:00 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote this:-

As suggested, many people rely on the road signs etc and forget
about people emrging from the side turning whose view is blocked by vehicles
parked close to the junction.

Although I can't comment on this location removal of excessive road
markings has been shown to slow the average speed of motor traffic.
I expect to see more of it, though it will be a low process.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote the following
in:

A number of people have referred to the "give way to the right"
method that is in force in parts of Europe, Isn't it about time we
had a similar "give way to the left" rule in the UK?

Wouldn't that just be the reverse of a mini-roundabout? If so, why not
just have a give way to the right rule so that unmarked junctions were
treated as mini-roundabouts.

--
message by the incredible Robin May.
"The British don't like successful people" - said by British failures

Who is Abi Titmuss? What is she? Why is she famous?
http://robinmay.fotopic.net

Robin May wrote:
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote the following
in:

A number of people have referred to the "give way to the right"
method that is in force in parts of Europe, Isn't it about time we
had a similar "give way to the left" rule in the UK?

Wouldn't that just be the reverse of a mini-roundabout? If so, why not
just have a give way to the right rule so that unmarked junctions were
treated as mini-roundabouts.

The implementation, at this stage, is less important than getting the basic
idea accepted. But I've got no problem with your suggestion.

Paul Weaver wrote in message ...
Theres lots of them arround Warrington, basically noone has right of way.
Of course up north people are polite and will organise themselves if more
thne 2 cars are at the junction at one time. Like Cheeky's Sister, when I
learnt I was told to treat them as give ways.

Sounds very like the 4-way stop concept in the states. All cars have
to stop and the first to arrive can continue. They take a little while
to get the hang of but then work well. Does a very good job of keeping
speeds down in residential areas. Without needing road humps and all
those other expensive measures draining the council funds. A lot of
the speed tables around me aren't that old but aren't showing signs
that they will last much longer. And I don't think the council road
budget can stretch to replacing them all soon! A few 4-way stop signs
and a single solid white line has got to be less expensive than the
semi-contruction methods used here - ( examples ...
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/Transport...m/calmhome.htm )

I also recall a TV program about traffic calming where the following
theory was discussed - that having lots of white line markings, sign
posts and build-outs/chicanes was not the most effective approach to
traffic calming. A better way was to have no roads markings at all.
One village, can't recall where is it, had done this and the result
was a marked reduction in average speeds. With no lines on the road,
especially in the centre, drivers were a lot more cautious. But with
lots of lines marking out routes they feel they have a safe corridor,
even though it might wobble around a bit, and can charge on. Also a
barage of road signs only serves to distract drivers from observing
the natural hazzards and cues that good drivers look for.

All well and good. but the original posters situation does sound
dangerous. If a junction is different from the others around it, thats
asking for trouble. Would be good to see a digital photo of the
junction in question.


Si

"Robin May" wrote in message
.4...
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote the following
in:

A number of people have referred to the "give way
to the right" method that is in force in parts of Europe,
Isn't it about time we had a similar "give way to the left"
rule in the UK?

Wouldn't that just be the reverse of a mini-roundabout?
If so, why not just have a give way to the right rule so
that unmarked junctions were treated as mini-roundabouts.

Why not just mark every junction?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Richard Bullock" wrote in message
...

It's an immediate fail if you actually drive through
an unmarked crossroads at speed - even if you
are on the more major road (despite the fact that
generally speaking - most traffic on the more major
road will simply drive through without slowing)

But how can you know the junction is unmarked until you are already passing
through it?

If you can't see any markings, assume it is unmarked.
If you want to check the markings before passing
through the junction, travel at an appropriate speed.

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 22:54:05 GMT, Channon
wrote:

Paul Weaver wrote:

Like Cheeky's Sister, when I
learnt I was told to treat them as give ways.

Cheeky, are you going out with your sister? :-O :-)

he he..... Well I am from Yorkshire..... ;-)

You'll be pleased to know that I'm not and Mr Weaver' allegation is
totally unwarranted!
--

ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø
Please reply to the group
Replies to this address will bounce!
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø

David Hansen wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:10:00 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote this:-

As suggested, many people rely on the road signs etc and forget
about people emrging from the side turning whose view is blocked by vehicles
parked close to the junction.

Although I can't comment on this location removal of excessive road
markings has been shown to slow the average speed of motor traffic.
I expect to see more of it, though it will be a low process.

It will be a slow and costly process because removing road markings
completely can only be done by re-surfacing the road.

Markings can be partially removed by burning them off, or planing them
off, but both these methods make a mess of the road surface - and you
can still see where the markings were. Another unsatisfactory method
is to cover them with black road-marking material - but as it wears
away the white markings underneath soon start to show through again.

Kensington and Chelsea have a 'de-cluttering' policy which aims to
reduce road signs and markings and other street furniture such as
guardrails and bollards to the absolute minimum in order to improve
the look of the area. So long as this is coupled with good road
design it shouldn't compromise safety.

But there may be risks if things are just ripped out without
considering why they were put there in the first place.

I have little doubt it is safe to omit markings in low speed roads
with relatively light traffic. Over recent years many residential
developments have been built without road markings at junctions and
work perfectly well. If you are not sure whether you have priority
just give-way - simple (if others do this at the same time it may be
confusing for a moment but not dangerous)! Just like a
mini-roundabout really, except for the lack of 'rules'.

I wouldn't recommend this as a 'blanket' policy however - each
location needs to be looked at. Where visibility of a junction is not
so good, providing give-way lines on the minor roads; and road
centre-lines (or leaving a gap in a continuous centre-line) across a
junction on the priority road can be an effective way to show drivers
that there is something there they need to look out for. And much
cheaper than mini-roundabouts, which can also be very effective if
required but need illuminated signs in addition to the road markings.

David Hansen wrote:
On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:10:00 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be
"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote this:-

As suggested, many people rely on the road signs etc and forget
about people emrging from the side turning whose view is blocked by
vehicles parked close to the junction.

Although I can't comment on this location removal of excessive road
markings has been shown to slow the average speed of motor traffic.
I expect to see more of it, though it will be a low process.

Interesting opinion. Road markings were put there in the first place to
restrict drivers. Most road markings are there to enforce particular laws.

Now, I would have thought *I* would be much keener to get rid of them than
*you* are.

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk
"The mood and temper of the public in regard to the treatment of crime
and criminals is one of the most unfailing tests of civilisation in any
country." (Winston Churchill)

umpston wrote:

I wouldn't recommend this as a 'blanket' policy however - each
location needs to be looked at. Where visibility of a junction is not
so good, providing give-way lines on the minor roads; and road
centre-lines (or leaving a gap in a continuous centre-line) across a
junction on the priority road can be an effective way to show drivers
that there is something there they need to look out for. And much
cheaper than mini-roundabouts, which can also be very effective if
required but need illuminated signs in addition to the road markings.

How about a simple "crossroads" sign, or whever the junction is?