John Rowland wrote:
"JWBA68" wrote in message
...

So has a District Line train gone to South Harrow
or Rayners Lane in recent times?

There was the time that a Piccadilly Line driver leaving Uxbridge
accepted the wrong signal at Rayners and ended up in
Harrow-On-The-Hill, whereupon the driver of the adjacent Metropolitan
Line train got out, walked across the platform and handed him a tube
map.

Old story John, but still a good'un.

Piccadilly Pilot wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 2 Sep 2004:

If you know the city (whichever it is) it probably is easier. But how about
people who have just got off a plane at Heathrow and there are two trains
sitting there, one with Cockfosters and the other with Arnos Grove on the
front and you want to get to Morden (say)?


But I didn't know the city when I first arrived there, how could I? And
what is a journey planner for, in any city (why, oh why, was the New
York one so confusing?) but to find out how to get from A to B.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/

(James) wrote in message . com...
(Boltar) wrote in message . com...
Steve Fitzgerald ] wrote in message ...
BTW, we don't run north or south, but east to west, I assume you're
referring to the eastbound?

I use real directions , not LU directions. Calling the line going south
from Cockfosters "westbound" is utterly absurd given that it actually runs
southeast to oakwood and south from there! It may be consistent for internal
LU uses to just use east-west but I know from personal experience that it
completely confuses out of towners.

B2003

Why would out-of-towners want to go to Cockfosters?

Middlesex polytechnic .. sorry I mean university.

B2003

(JWBA68) wrote in message ...
This is a "route learning guide" for errant District Lne drivers when
approaching Hanger Lane Junction.

So has a District Line train gone to South Harrow or Rayners Lane in recent
times?

Burkey

I believe that it happens a couple of times a year that some poor sod
gets to South Harrow. They rarely get to Rayner's, as that would
require something that prevented reversal at South Harrow (eg a double
points failure), which, even with Metronet's crappy maintenance
regime, is decidedly unlikely.

"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ...
James wrote:
Time between leaving train and signing off.

Generally nil (typically duties book off on the platform, although
some do have up to 7 minutes at the end).

According to District Dave's website
(http://www.trainweb.org/districtdave...318_duty.html), there's one
duty on the District Line with an hour and six minutes between leaving
the train at Barking EB and booking off at Earl's Court.
(Incidentally, this website's well worth a look at - the story about
him ending up at South Harrow is HILARIOUS!!!)

This is a "route learning guide" for errant District Lne drivers when
approaching Hanger Lane Junction.

http://www.piccadillypilot.co.uk/hlj/HLJOriginal.html

Nice one, Picc Pilot!!! Though quite frankly, I'd like to see the big
trains get ALL the western branches back (although this would probably
entail rebuilding the junctions at both ends of Earl's Court to
actually create some capacity (the Eastbound is particularly
****poor))!

"Boltar" wrote in message
om...

Why would out-of-towners want to go to Cockfosters?

Middlesex polytechnic .. sorry I mean university.

That's in Oakwood!

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Richard J. wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

Oh, and the Circle line directions should be Clockwise and
Anti-Clockwise. This is not an opinion - this is a fact, proven by
science.

What is this "fact" proven by science?

THAT I AM RIGHT.



Personally, I find it much quicker to relate Inner Rail and Outer Rail
to a direction than Clockwise and Anti-Clockwise, which I find
unnecessarily indirect. (I have to remember first which way analogue
clocks move, which to a mathematician is the "wrong" or negative
direction. Why people still want to tell the time by looking at the
angles of two sticks is a mystery to me.)

Personally, i find that much slower, since i have to remember first which
side the trains drive on.

i suggest Ana and Kata, these being the traditional extra directions
in maths.

I think your traditions are rather younger than mine.

It is more likely that i have misapprehended them.

Hmm. It would be nice if, [...]

Have i missed any interchanges in the centre of town? The map
doesn't show any as parallel, but they might be in reality.
Anyway, basically, it works, with 'kata' more or less meaning
'east' - the Northern line is the only major exception.

Warren Street to Stockwell: via Victoria line ana-bound; via Northern
Line kata-bound.

That wasn't a criterion! There are probably quite a few cases where you
can make the same trip by going in different directions on different
lines; i was only concerned with specifically parallel interchanges.

Similarly, the cross-platform interchanges between the Victoria Line and
the Bank branch of the Northern Line would be between an ana-bound and a
kata-bound train.

I wasn't aware that such things existed - is that at Euston?

An interesting intellectual exercise, but please don't get a job in LU!

Oh, i don't think they need my skills in the
confusing-the-hell-out-of-people department.

tom

--
I gotta handful of vertebrae and a headful of mad! -- The Doomguy

On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Dave Newt wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On 1 Sep 2004, Boltar wrote:

"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message ...

OK the Piccadilly Line between Holborn and Cockfosters is relabelled
North and South. What about the rest of the line? What about the
Jubillee or the Bakerloo lines, how would you label them?

You label them in whatever direction they're going at that station
according to the map. You don't show it going north on a map then
write "westbound" on all the station signs. Or better yet do what
other systems do and label them by their end stations. Eg towards
cockfosters or towards heathrow/uxbridge. This was also done on the
underground years ago. Not sure if it still is these days.

I find labelling by terminus completely unhelpful -

Having lived in Paris (where they label by terminus) and London
(labelled by quasi-direction), I don't find it unhelpful at all.

It very much sounds like people who've used both prefer the Paris system,
so perhaps i'm in the wrong here.

unless you know the network well enough to know the terminus of every
line (which most Londoners probably do, but visitors certainly don't)

But you think they would know that Westminster is East of South
Kensington, or that East Finchley is South of West Finchley?

If they actually knew where those places were, then yes. If they don't
know where they're going, the names of the directions are the least of
their concerns.

, it means you need a map to interpret the signs.

As, indeed, you do now.

You need more geographical knowledge to do it your way than mine - under
my system, people need to know the relative positions of their start and
end stations; under yours, they need to know that, plus the positions of
the termini. I've lived in London for a year now, and i still couldn't
tell you the terminus of every tube line off the top of my head (and i
could only tell you, if you gave me the name, that Stanmore was the
western end of the Jubilee because i know Stratford's at the other end!).

tom

--
I gotta handful of vertebrae and a headful of mad! -- The Doomguy

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:04:26 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 1 Sep 2004:

I find labelling by terminus completely unhelpful - unless you know the
network well enough to know the terminus of every line (which most
Londoners probably do, but visitors certainly don't), it means you need a
map to interpret the signs.

Oh no, it's much easier! As a young adult, I lived in Paris before I
lived in London, and had enormous difficulty working out how the London
system worked, compared to the extraordinarily easy Paris system, which
labels by terminus.

Hmm - interesting. The first time I visited Paris I needed to get from
St Lazare to Gare du Lyon and got hopelessly lost. For some utterly
stupid reason I had assumed that the Metro directional signing would be
like the Tube. Wrong.

Although I am very familiar with the LU network and really do not need
to have a map at all to get round I have got used to the Paris way of
doing things and although I need a map I can orientate myself very
quickly when scooting about by Metro.

Doesn't help that I have enormous difficulty
knowing my left from my right, or my east from my west.... I can just
about manage north and south, but that's it!

I don't have this difficulty but I did find Tokyo immensely difficult to
get round because of the very confusing and inconsistent designs of
street maps, street naming and building numbering. That was even before
the challenge of even trying to understand kanji characters. Thankfully
there is English used on the main elements of the public transport
network. I didn't venture anywhere by bus but the subway and surface
rail system was exceptionally good.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:04:26 +0100, Annabel Smyth
wrote:

Oh no, it's much easier! As a young adult, I lived in Paris before I
lived in London, and had enormous difficulty working out how the London
system worked, compared to the extraordinarily easy Paris system, which
labels by terminus. Doesn't help that I have enormous difficulty
knowing my left from my right, or my east from my west.... I can just
about manage north and south, but that's it!

I must say I've always wondered why the Circle Line isn't labelled as
"Circle Line Clockwise" and "Circle Line Anticlockwise", as working it
out with the "via" points can take some time if you're not too
familiar with it, whereas you can see clockwise/anticlockwise on the
Tube map very easily.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain