Nick Cooper wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 10 Oct 2004:

Yeah, well having seen speeding cyclists jumping reds at crossings and
coming within a hair's bredth of sending OAPs flying, I'll reserve
judgement on that one.

Not even OAPs - I was very nearly sent flying by one the other day, and
I am merely middle aged. All the same, I don't want to be knocked down,
thank you.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 26 September 2004

Annabel Smyth wrote:

Not even OAPs - I was very nearly sent flying by one the other day, and
I am merely middle aged. All the same, I don't want to be knocked down,
thank you.

Methinks you do exaggerate a tad. The number of pedestrians killed by
cylists in the carriageway is 0.1% of the number killed by motor
vehicles. The number of pedestrians seriously injured by cyclists in
the carriageway is 0.2% of those seriously injured by motor vehicles. I
don't condone dangerous cycling but you need to get the sources of
danger in perspective.

Tony

Tony Raven wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 11 Oct 2004:

Annabel Smyth wrote:
Not even OAPs - I was very nearly sent flying by one the other day,
and
I am merely middle aged. All the same, I don't want to be knocked down,
thank you.

Methinks you do exaggerate a tad.

No. I *am* middle-aged, and I *was* very nearly sent flying by a
cyclist jumping a red light on Brixton Road. And it was within the last
two months, so very recently.

The number of pedestrians killed by cylists in the carriageway is 0.1%
of the number killed by motor vehicles.

Do feel free to point out where I said anything about being killed? I
said "knocked down" - even were one not to be injured, I would really
rather not be knocked down, whether by a cyclist, pedestrian or even a
passing lamp-post!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 26 September 2004

Annabel Smyth writes:

Tony Raven wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 11 Oct 2004:

Annabel Smyth wrote:
Not even OAPs - I was very nearly sent flying by one the other day,
and
I am merely middle aged. All the same, I don't want to be knocked down,
thank you.

Methinks you do exaggerate a tad.

No. I *am* middle-aged, and I *was* very nearly sent flying ...

I suppose the argument turns on the "nearly" - one person's "nearly"
is another's "missed by miles"...

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 18:43:20 GMT,
(Nick Cooper) wrote:


You can complain to uk.tosspot, who will greet you as a long-lost
brother. They think the fact that "yoofs" on bikes commit offences
justifies

I don't recall putting the sort of cyclist I was complaining about
into any particular age bracket. In fact, my own observations tell me
that the most "serious"-looking of cyclists are - if anything - worse.

Ah, so you are making a non age-specific invalid generalisation
instead of the usual age-specific one. That changes everything,
obviously...

whatever behaviour they see fit to inflict on those unlucky
enough to have to share the road with them, and the disparity in
danger posed by cyclists and motorists is of no relevance.

I could ask you to elaborate on the huge supposition you seem to have
made here, but you've already dug yourself into too deep a hole as it
is.

What supposition? Look back at the history of cross-posted threads
between urc and uk.tosspot.

Alternatively you could consider to what extent the relative
seriousness of your pet hate

Please justify use of phrase "pet hate".

Please jsutify the use of illegal cyclist behaviour to excuse illegal
and potentially lethal bus driver behaviour.

and the homicidal bus driver might be informed by the fact the fact
that the bus driver is trained to a higher standard than most road
users, is entrusted with the safety of multiple occupants of his
vehicle, is driving a large and heavy vehicle and is notionally a
professional driver paid to drive. His company has a duty of care to
those with whom their drivers share the roads.

So that excuses crap cyclists, does it?

So you feel it's perfectly acceptable to use the behaviour of crap
cyclists to excuse that of crap drivers, but not vice-versa?
Fascinating.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
Spicknspan wrote:

A few months ago I saw what this can lead to. A lycra clad cyclist went
flying around the roundabout at Trafalgar Square at a good 30mph, and
turned
down Whitehall going straight through the red light, and straight into a
woman crossing the road.


It doesn't excuse bad behaviour like that but its interesting you have
to delve back several months to come up with an example,

I'd have to delve back even further for an example of a car accident I've
seen, although I'm sure many have happened since.

which, knowing
the complex junction to turn into Whitehall from Trafalgar Sq is rather
improbable.

Maybe improbable, but true.

I am sure the London cycling contingent can give you daily
examples of cyclists becoming the victims of bad driving and pedestrians
stepping out without looking.

FWIW 30mph seems to be the norm for all traffic round other parts of
Trafalgar square when it gets the opportunity.

Does that include going through red lights without even a pretence of
braking?


Tony

On 11/10/04 1:49 pm, in article ,
"Spicknspan" wrote:

"Tony Raven" wrote in message
...
Spicknspan wrote:

A few months ago I saw what this can lead to. A lycra clad cyclist went
flying around the roundabout at Trafalgar Square at a good 30mph, and
turned
down Whitehall going straight through the red light, and straight into a
woman crossing the road.


It doesn't excuse bad behaviour like that but its interesting you have
to delve back several months to come up with an example,
which, knowing
the complex junction to turn into Whitehall from Trafalgar Sq is rather
improbable.

Maybe improbable, but true.


30mph? Really?
How did you measure it? Or is it a 'my goodness they were going quickly,
must have been at least pluck figure out of air 30mph'

It would be nigh on impossible except on a completely clear road, and I
doubt the road there ever gets that clear.

...d

Paul Rudin wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 11 Oct 2004:

I suppose the argument turns on the "nearly" - one person's "nearly"
is another's "missed by miles"...

I dare say - when you step into the road and have to leap back on to the
pavement to avoid being run down, you consider it "nearly". At least, I
do..... Had I been another inch further into the road, we would have
collided.

Mind you, come to think of it, I'm so fat the cyclist would probably
have come off worst.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 26 September 2004

In article ,
says...
I dare say - when you step into the road and have to leap back on to the
pavement to avoid being run down, you consider it "nearly". At least, I
do..... Had I been another inch further into the road, we would have
collided.

I've been surprisingly good at avoiding collisions when pedestrians
randomly wander into the road without looking. It's possible that the
moron in question wouldn't actually have hit you (Although if he was
cycling through a red his skills are somewhat irrelevant).

Mind you, come to think of it, I'm so fat the cyclist would probably
have come off worst.

Despite my earlier claim I have however hit a pedestrian once while
cycling. Neither of us sustained serious injuries (Although I did have a
stiff arm for a few days) and he was very quick to apologise (His
fault!).

I think you'd actually have to be pretty unlucky to be seriously hurt by
a cyclist. Being in some way attached to the bike means that they tend
to come off worst!

Jon

David Martin wrote:

30mph? Really?
How did you measure it? Or is it a 'my goodness they were going quickly,
must have been at least pluck figure out of air 30mph'

It would be nigh on impossible except on a completely clear road, and I
doubt the road there ever gets that clear.


Come to think of it, it wasn't the Tour of Britain final stage they were
thinking of was it? Hordes of lycra clad cyclists averaging 30mph going
through that junction 40 times in 100 mins whether the lights were red
or green. OTOH it was an officially sanctioned closed road race and I
don't remember the peleton hitting anyone.

Tony