Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think most
people will
continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by the products of the
devil's
engineering works.......A double decker bus journey across London will
*always* be
preferable to any single decker cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!


I wholeheartedly agree.

Marc.

(Mait001) wrote in message ...
Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think most
people will
continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by the products of the
devil's
engineering works.......A double decker bus journey across London will
*always* be
preferable to any single decker cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!


I wholeheartedly agree.

Marc.

I can't see any reason why there couldn't be double decked bendy buses
albeit the front section of the bus only (as I suspect though you could
articulate 2 decks it would be a bit hairy engineering wise).

B2003

On 10 Sep 2004 08:14:46 -0700, (Boltar) wrote:

(Mait001) wrote in message ...
Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think most
people will
continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by the products of the
devil's
engineering works.......A double decker bus journey across London will
*always* be
preferable to any single decker cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!


I wholeheartedly agree.

Marc.

I can't see any reason why there couldn't be double decked bendy buses
albeit the front section of the bus only (as I suspect though you could
articulate 2 decks it would be a bit hairy engineering wise).

There have been double deck bendy coaches produced by Neoplan for long
distance touring type holidays.

I think the main issue about double deck bendies would be that dwell
time at stops and termini would be much longer than with normal double
decks or single deck bendies. You then need far more vehicles to
maintain a given frequency or else the route has to become less
frequent. This is already the case to a limited extent with the bendy
bus conversions relative to double deck operation but that is more to do
with the fact that the same capacity can be provided with fewer buses
while not incurring longer dwell times. Part of TfL policy is to crush
more people into buses during the peaks as expansion of peak capacity
cannot really be afforded.

In another place a MD of one company that uses bendy buses in London
said very clearly that they had big advantages compared to say Hong Kong
style 12m double decks. One of big issues was over dwell time at stops -
particularly in busy places like Oxford Street where bus stop capacity /
occupancy is a key issue. While I understand the point he made I am not
100% convinced as big buses work in Hong Kong although given the very
high frequencies it is not uncommon to have for buses to queue to get
onto a stop.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 19:00:46 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

In another place a MD of one company that uses bendy buses in London
said very clearly that they had big advantages compared to say Hong Kong
style 12m double decks. One of big issues was over dwell time at stops -
particularly in busy places like Oxford Street where bus stop capacity /
occupancy is a key issue. While I understand the point he made I am not
100% convinced as big buses work in Hong Kong although given the very
high frequencies it is not uncommon to have for buses to queue to get
onto a stop.

The dwell-time problem is very obvious on a route like the 42 in
Manchester. Stagecoach operate (or did operate, they may now have
gone to Megabus) some very large ex-Hong Kong double-deckers on their
Magic Bus services. These were single-doored (not only that, but the
single door was very narrow), and so dwell times at stops were
measured in minutes rather than seconds, exacerbated by the need to
take fares on board. The loadings and typical short journeys mean
this route is crying out for cashless bendy operation (though you'd
need very good revenue protection!)

That said, long deckers *can* be operated on the European model - the
best style I've seen is Berlin's, where boarding is via the front door
and alighting via the rear - but with the rear door all the way to the
back and two staircases. These seem to manage a speed of operation
not dissimilar to a 3-doored bendy.

I don't think I'd go for a bendy decker, though. Large deckers work
better as 12m rigid vehicles, though these may be too long for
London's narrow streets. They're not the longest buses in Germany,
mind - Hamburg has a few 16m *rigid* Citaros with steering rear axles
- FirstGroup brought one over a while ago for a test, though they're
still not legal in this country.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To e-mail use neil at the above domain

Paul Corfield wrote:
On 10 Sep 2004 08:14:46 -0700, (Boltar) wrote:
(Mait001) wrote...
Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think
most people will continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by
the products of the devil's engineering works.......A double decker
bus journey across London will *always* be preferable to any single
decker cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!


I wholeheartedly agree.

Marc.

I can't see any reason why there couldn't be double decked bendy buses
albeit the front section of the bus only (as I suspect though you could
articulate 2 decks it would be a bit hairy engineering wise).

There have been double deck bendy coaches produced by Neoplan for long
distance touring type holidays.

The Jumbocruisers?

I think the main issue about double deck bendies would be that dwell
time at stops and termini would be much longer than with normal double
decks or single deck bendies. You then need far more vehicles to
maintain a given frequency or else the route has to become less
frequent.

As far as TfL routes go, you're probably right, but they should be OK
for the longer distance commuter bus routes into London. The cost of the
vehicles is probably the biggest drawback.

This is already the case to a limited extent with the bendy
bus conversions relative to double deck operation but that is more to do
with the fact that the same capacity can be provided with fewer buses
while not incurring longer dwell times. Part of TfL policy is to crush
more people into buses during the peaks as expansion of peak capacity
cannot really be afforded.

Of course it can be afforded - just keep the Routemasters running in
addition to the new buses.

In another place a MD of one company that uses bendy buses in London
said very clearly that they had big advantages compared to say Hong Kong
style 12m double decks. One of big issues was over dwell time at stops -
particularly in busy places like Oxford Street where bus stop capacity /
occupancy is a key issue. While I understand the point he made I am not
100% convinced as big buses work in Hong Kong although given the very
high frequencies it is not uncommon to have for buses to queue to get
onto a stop.

Do the current double deckers let you board at all doors?

In article , (A A) wrote:

Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think
most people will continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by
the products of the devil's engineering works.......A double decker bus
journey across London will *always* be preferable to any single decker
cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!

Agree. My 12-year-old daughter and I could jump on a 73 at the Euston
Road/Judd Street traffic lights last week. Couldn't do it any more. :-(

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"A A" wrote in message
...

"Jim" wrote in message
...
Hello everyone

I use the 73. I love the old buses, but was also mildly interested in
seeing
these new creatures cruising down Essex Road. I remain infuriated by the
bunching and the slowness around Euston. I was basically open-minded
about
the change to bendybuses.

However, I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that my general state of mind
has
improved this week. I don't want to overstate it, but on stepping off a
bendybus I somehow just _feel better_ than when stepping off the old
ones.

All these years on the old buses, I've been forced into a crouching,
cowering position, holding myself to myself to avoid damaging myself and
inconveniencing everyone else with my limbs and my height. I got on a 38
(old bus) just now and I felt completely hemmed in, almost
claustrophobic. I
wanted to get off.

On the new buses I can stand up straight, hold my head up, breathe
properly.
I feel stronger and more confident. OK now I'm sounding flaky, but this
was
a completely unexpected by-product of the change.

Jim


Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think most
people will
continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by the products of the
devil's
engineering works.......A double decker bus journey across London will
*always* be
preferable to any single decker cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!

Let's compromise... double-decker bendies, anyone?

On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:57:11 +0100, "adrian"
wrote:

"A A" wrote in message
...

Interesting alternative viewpoint re. the bendies.

Don't think the majority would agree with you though, somehow I think most
people will
continue to lament the passing of the Routemasters by the products of the
devil's
engineering works.......A double decker bus journey across London will
*always* be
preferable to any single decker cattle truck (bendy or otherwise).

Bring back the double deckers!

Let's compromise... double-decker bendies, anyone?

....with all of the doors removed so it's still hop-on/hop-off?

Marc Brett ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Bring back the double deckers!

Let's compromise... double-decker bendies, anyone?

...with all of the doors removed so it's still hop-on/hop-off?

A routebender? A bendymaster?

Adrian wrote:

Marc Brett ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

Bring back the double deckers!

Let's compromise... double-decker bendies, anyone?

...with all of the doors removed so it's still hop-on/hop-off?

A routebender? A bendymaster?

Routemonster?