--- "Philip Mason" said:

I am sure it will not be long before TfL is
taken to the EU Court of Human Rights
by someone who feels they have the
right to choose comfort over bus


But surely comfort is, by its very nature, a luxury and not a fundamental
human right?

In article ,
Roland Perry wrote:
A bit of a London-centric view, that. People outside the M25
would kill to get a public transport service a tenth as
good as that inside.

And over 60's outside the GLC area would kill to have free travel
over such a large area.

--
Tony Bryer

Neil Williams wrote:
1) More sensible positioning of bus stops. It's worth considering
things like putting stops right up against traffic lights with some
sort of priority control so the bus can request the lights to change
in its favour when it's finished at the stop. I've seen this sort of
thing in a few places in Germany.
This kind of positioning of bus stops is quite usual over here in
Germany, often combined with extra traffic lights for buses, as seen
in these pictures: http://www.info-lsa.de/images/Fotos/...NV/CO_Bhf1.JPG,
http://www.info-lsa.de/images/Fotos/...trasse_Bus.JPG
These traffic lights contain "-" for "stop", "|" for "go", and often
"T" for "close doors" (_T_ueren schliessen), "V" for "yield"
(_V_orfahrt gewaehren), "A" for "request" (_A_nforderung) and many
more (often "/" or "\" instead of "|" to show the direction).

Priority control: The buses here in Stuttgart have infrared
transmitters, see http://www.info-lsa.de/images/Fotos/...PNV/Bus_IR.jpg
The receivers are placed on or nearby traffic lights, see
http://www.info-lsa.de/images/Sensoren/RBL.jpg
This stuff is linked together with the traffic light priority control
and the real-time-bus-arrival-displays on bus stops.

Torsten

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:41:31 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:

1) More sensible positioning of bus stops. It's worth considering
things like putting stops right up against traffic lights with some
sort of priority control so the bus can request the lights to change
in its favour when it's finished at the stop. I've seen this sort of
thing in a few places in Germany.

This is exactly what happens with the vast majority of tram stops in
Melbourne, Australia.

Priority is given the trams to move off if lanes narrow ahead or of a
left or right turn - potentially across traffic - is required.


Cheers,

Jason.

Matthew Church wrote:
Amongst all the mayhem of boxes, zig-zags, bumps, chicanes, lights and
bollards there seems to be a new phenomena in South London - buses
being used to deliberately block the routes they use so as to prevent
traffic passing them.

On the road from Hook to Chessington (71 bus route) the lay-by before
the Greenfields roundabout was filled in about 6 months ago, so the 71
has nowhere to pull into (bad thing for the traffic) but OTOH nowhere
to pull out of (good thing for the 71).

Today I notice just round the corner on the opposite side the bus stop
has been jettied out into the dual carriageway and the bus now
*completely* blocks the road to cars!

Is the idea that anyone in future using a car will travel at the same
speed as the bus they see ahead of them?

Lets have a complete ban on buses using roads where traffic cannot pass
when they are stopped!!! And prosecute the drivers that do not pull in
when they can.

Why should bus drivers have the right to delay *everybody* --- which
includes all the other buses, before anyone replies with the specious
'because they carry more people' argument. A bus blocking the road may
have a dozen people on board: it may be delaying hundreds.

Why not move bus routes to minor roads?

And why can't other drivers actually *use* bus lanes when available? No;
scrap that one because then I wouldn't be able to sail down the
available bus lane while everyone else waits in the single lane;-)

--
Nick H (UK)

Nick H (UK) wrote:
Matthew Church wrote:

Amongst all the mayhem of boxes, zig-zags, bumps, chicanes, lights and
bollards there seems to be a new phenomena in South London - buses
being used to deliberately block the routes they use so as to prevent
traffic passing them.

On the road from Hook to Chessington (71 bus route) the lay-by before
the Greenfields roundabout was filled in about 6 months ago, so the 71
has nowhere to pull into (bad thing for the traffic) but OTOH nowhere
to pull out of (good thing for the 71).

Today I notice just round the corner on the opposite side the bus stop
has been jettied out into the dual carriageway and the bus now
*completely* blocks the road to cars!

Is the idea that anyone in future using a car will travel at the same
speed as the bus they see ahead of them?


Lets have a complete ban on buses using roads where traffic cannot pass
when they are stopped!!! And prosecute the drivers that do not pull in
when they can.

Why not ban cars from roads where they cannot pass buses?

Why should bus drivers have the right to delay *everybody* --- which
includes all the other buses, before anyone replies with the specious
'because they carry more people' argument. A bus blocking the road may
have a dozen people on board: it may be delaying hundreds.

Why not move bus routes to minor roads?

Why not move cars on to minor roads?

This is London, not the highlands of Scotland. There simply isn't enough
road space for everyone to travel by car. Remember, before the
congestion charge something like 14% of journeys in central London were
made by car, and we had near gridlock. Cars can only be used by a small
minority in large city - it's difficult to see why they should be given
much priority.

And why can't other drivers actually *use* bus lanes when available? No;
scrap that one because then I wouldn't be able to sail down the
available bus lane while everyone else waits in the single lane;-)


I can't see how delaying cars can be a bad thing on the whole. Making
driving in London really unpleasant seems like a good way to get people
out of their cars to me. After all, a similar policy was in place
against pedestrians for many years - look at most British towns. OK -
it's a shame for the small number of drivers who have to travel by car,
and emergency access needs to be considered. In the long run, though,
fewer unnecessary cars on the road would be to everyone's benefit.

The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let
buses pull out. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for
other people (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose
to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary.

A

"Anonymouse" wrote in message
...
Nick H (UK) wrote:

The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let
buses pull out. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for
other people (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose
to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary.

Ah, the old punish-the-majority-for-the-sins-of-the-few ploy? The same sort
of unthinking easy-way-out solution that a teacher might use - keeping the
whole school in because someone has written a "naughty word" on the bog
wall!

For the record, I nearly always let buses and taxis pull out ahead of me,
providing they indicate their intention sufficiently in advance that I can
slow down slightly without needing to brake, creating a gap into which they
can pull. I sometimes get hooted from vehicles behind and once a bicycle
decided to overtake me on the left, narrowly escaping being sandwiched
between the bus and my nearside front wing - some people just cannot read
the road ahead of them!

Nick H (UK) wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 10 Oct 2004:

Why not move bus routes to minor roads?

Because they'd block them completely.

And why can't other drivers actually *use* bus lanes when available?

Because at those hours, the bus lane is invariably blocked by parked
cars.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 26 September 2004

Martin Underwood wrote:
"Anonymouse" wrote in message
...

Nick H (UK) wrote:


The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let
buses pull out. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for
other people (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose
to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary.


Ah, the old punish-the-majority-for-the-sins-of-the-few ploy? The same sort
of unthinking easy-way-out solution that a teacher might use - keeping the
whole school in because someone has written a "naughty word" on the bog
wall!

From personal experience, I would put it as
punish-the-few-for-the-sins-of-the-majority. There is something quite
scary about the way normally rational people behave when behind the
wheel of a car. And let's not forget the six million bus passengers
every day in London who are currently inconvenienced by inconsiderate
drivers.

What is your solution to the problem? I have already written why I think
delaying car drivers for a short while is OK. Before, buses were unable
to pull out in traffic. Now, they can. If the solution inconveniences
those who are considerate, maybe they will increase peer pressure on
those who are not, and change their behaviour.

For the record, I nearly always let buses and taxis pull out ahead of me,
providing they indicate their intention sufficiently in advance that I can
slow down slightly without needing to brake, creating a gap into which they
can pull. I sometimes get hooted from vehicles behind and once a bicycle
decided to overtake me on the left, narrowly escaping being sandwiched
between the bus and my nearside front wing - some people just cannot read
the road ahead of them!



It's amazing, isn't it. If only all drivers were as good as those who
post to newsgroups! (Actually, why not brake to let buses pull out? I
don't understand that point.)

A

Anonymouse typed


It's amazing, isn't it. If only all drivers were as good as those who
post to newsgroups! (Actually, why not brake to let buses pull out? I
don't understand that point.)

Don't you? He *is* a motorist... ;-)

To be fair, he might worry that someone could crash into his rear.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.