"Anonymouse" wrote in message
...

For the record, I nearly always let buses and taxis pull out ahead of
me,
providing they indicate their intention sufficiently in advance that I
can
slow down slightly without needing to brake, creating a gap into which
they
can pull. I sometimes get hooted from vehicles behind and once a bicycle
decided to overtake me on the left, narrowly escaping being sandwiched
between the bus and my nearside front wing - some people just cannot
read
the road ahead of them!

It's amazing, isn't it. If only all drivers were as good as those who
post to newsgroups! (Actually, why not brake to let buses pull out? I
don't understand that point.)

By saying "without needing to brake" I was saying that if you read the road
properly, you can slow down so gently that you hardly notice it, rather than
reacting at the last minute and braking hard. The same thing applies to
creating a little extra space in front of you to let a car turn right across
your path.

Of course, if the driver that wants to pull out or turn across your path
doesn't do so as soon as you signal that you'll wait for him, the whole plan
goes pear-shaped ;-)

I'm sure I am unusual in giving way to buses and letting cars turn right
across my path, but I judge that delaying myself by a few seconds is
preferable to making a busful of passengers wait until some kindly soul lets
the bus pull out or to making all the cars behind the one that's turning
wait till someone lets him turn. Sadly, there aren't many drivers who do the
same for me :-(

Anonymouse ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

It's amazing, isn't it. If only all drivers were as good as those who
post to newsgroups!

If only all drivers actually realised that it's an activity that requires
skill and attention... Which is why the ones who post and discuss it are
usually the ones who are better drivers - because they're not just the
sheep who sit behind the steering wheel and zone out until their
destination.

Same as the posters to uk.rec.cycling don't tend to be the brain-dead
"lycra louts" to whom red lights and other traffic laws don't apply.

(Actually, why not brake to let buses pull out? I don't understand that
point.)

Nor do I - and that's why I'll slow or stop to let a bus out if it's safe
to do so.

"Anonymouse" wrote in message
...

What is your solution to the problem?

One solution would be to give all bus stops on main roads a lengthened
acceleration lane, and to install "Give Way" signs and lines for the general
traffic at the end of the bus's acceleration lane. Not cheap.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Philip Mason wrote:
I can confirm I have been on the wrong side of a bus when the driver
decided that he would just pull out. it was on a wide road in London,
where I would have had enough space to overtake a "normal" road
vehicle which would have been pulling out from the same spot.
However, the bus decided it would indicate and, simultaneously, pull
out right into the side of my car. Luckily only minor scratches were
obtained, but it could easily have been much worse if, as you state,
My car were a bicycle or motorbike!

Current government policy is to stop Londoners from enjoying the
roads as we should, and instead they are forcing everybody to travel
on the HIGHLY inadequate public transport. I am sure it will not be
long before TfL is taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone
who feels they have the right to choose comfort over bus


Since when has there been the right to drive a car?

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:31:31 +0000 (UTC), "Piccadilly Pilot"
wrote:

Philip Mason wrote:
I can confirm I have been on the wrong side of a bus when the driver
decided that he would just pull out. it was on a wide road in London,
where I would have had enough space to overtake a "normal" road
vehicle which would have been pulling out from the same spot.
However, the bus decided it would indicate and, simultaneously, pull
out right into the side of my car. Luckily only minor scratches were
obtained, but it could easily have been much worse if, as you state,
My car were a bicycle or motorbike!

Current government policy is to stop Londoners from enjoying the
roads as we should, and instead they are forcing everybody to travel
on the HIGHLY inadequate public transport. I am sure it will not be
long before TfL is taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone
who feels they have the right to choose comfort over bus


Since when has there been the right to drive a car?

Mrs Thatcher and the Daily Mail believe it so it must be right. Only
poor people travel by public transport and we certainly can't have car
owners being seen as somehow less or worse off than the rest of society.

I'm sure the EU Court of Human Rights would completely concur with such
views.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Anonymouse wrote:
Nick H (UK) wrote:

Matthew Church wrote:

Amongst all the mayhem of boxes, zig-zags, bumps, chicanes, lights and
bollards there seems to be a new phenomena in South London - buses
being used to deliberately block the routes they use so as to prevent
traffic passing them.

On the road from Hook to Chessington (71 bus route) the lay-by before
the Greenfields roundabout was filled in about 6 months ago, so the 71
has nowhere to pull into (bad thing for the traffic) but OTOH nowhere
to pull out of (good thing for the 71).

Today I notice just round the corner on the opposite side the bus stop
has been jettied out into the dual carriageway and the bus now
*completely* blocks the road to cars!

Is the idea that anyone in future using a car will travel at the same
speed as the bus they see ahead of them?



Lets have a complete ban on buses using roads where traffic cannot
pass when they are stopped!!! And prosecute the drivers that do not
pull in when they can.


Why not ban cars from roads where they cannot pass buses?

Ahh, so you've swallowed the Bus is King line. Surely there's room for
everyone with correct planning, rather than crazy dogma.

Why should bus drivers have the right to delay *everybody* --- which
includes all the other buses, before anyone replies with the specious
'because they carry more people' argument. A bus blocking the road may
have a dozen people on board: it may be delaying hundreds.

Why not move bus routes to minor roads?


Why not move cars on to minor roads?
Cars use minor roads /anyway/. Put the buses there too and leave the
main roads free to get as much traffic flowing as possible.


This is London, not the highlands of Scotland. There simply isn't enough
road space for everyone to travel by car.

Actually I don't believe that. Huge amounts of road space have been lost
to cars through pavement widening, bus lanes, cycle lanes (which many
cyclists do not consider safe or want). Result: congestion. The we have
the spin that it is all down to cars. I believe that it is largely down
to engineering. It's all spin.

Remember, before the
congestion charge something like 14% of journeys in central London were
made by car, and we had near gridlock.

had? On the main road near to me (not in the congestion zone)it is often
gridlock. Why? Oh, sheer weight of traffic, many would cry.
But how many times do have the experience of taking half an hour to
approach and pass through one set of traffic lights, after which the
road is clear. An engineered jam!

Stop-start congested traffic: good for the environment? No. Nice for
residents? No. Nice for pedestrians, No. Who wins? the local politicians
and the council-tax (our money) spending staff and their crazy schemes.

Cars can only be used by a small
minority in large city - it's difficult to see why they should be given
much priority.

And why can't other drivers actually *use* bus lanes when available?
No; scrap that one because then I wouldn't be able to sail down the
available bus lane while everyone else waits in the single lane;-)


I can't see how delaying cars can be a bad thing on the whole. Making
driving in London really unpleasant seems like a good way to get people
out of their cars to me. After all, a similar policy was in place
against pedestrians for many years - look at most British towns. OK -
it's a shame for the small number of drivers who have to travel by car,
and emergency access needs to be considered. In the long run, though,
fewer unnecessary cars on the road would be to everyone's benefit.

The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let
buses pull out.

Every bus delaying the traffic is delaying other buses as well. Why
can't anyone take in this simple fact? Traffic moving is traffic moving:
better for everyone.

If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for
other people

If bus drivers (who used to be professionals, not road-hogging, junction
blocking idiots) acquired some basic consideration for other people...

(which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose
to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary.

A


--
Nick H (UK)

Martin Underwood wrote:

"Anonymouse" wrote in message
...

Nick H (UK) wrote:


The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let
buses pull out. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for
other people (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose
to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary.


Ah, the old punish-the-majority-for-the-sins-of-the-few ploy? The same sort
of unthinking easy-way-out solution that a teacher might use - keeping the
whole school in because someone has written a "naughty word" on the bog
wall!

For the record, I nearly always let buses and taxis pull out ahead of me,

Me too. I figure that the guy who /has/ to drive all day because it his
job deserves a bit of extra consideration. But, if the balance of my
experience gets to be that the bus drivers I let out will block me soon
after then...

providing they indicate their intention sufficiently in advance that I can
slow down slightly without needing to brake, creating a gap into which they
can pull. I sometimes get hooted from vehicles behind and once a bicycle
decided to overtake me on the left, narrowly escaping being sandwiched
between the bus and my nearside front wing - some people just cannot read
the road ahead of them!




--
Nick H (UK)

Anonymouse wrote:

Martin Underwood wrote:

"Anonymouse" wrote in message
...

Nick H (UK) wrote:



The cause of the filling in of bus stops is that car drivers don't let
buses pull out. If car drivers acquired some basic consideration for
other people (which it's questionable whether you can have if you choose
to drive in London anyway), this wouldn't be necessary.



Ah, the old punish-the-majority-for-the-sins-of-the-few ploy? The same
sort
of unthinking easy-way-out solution that a teacher might use - keeping
the
whole school in because someone has written a "naughty word" on the bog
wall!


From personal experience, I would put it as
punish-the-few-for-the-sins-of-the-majority. There is something quite
scary about the way normally rational people behave when behind the
wheel of a car. And let's not forget the six million bus passengers
every day in London who are currently inconvenienced by inconsiderate
drivers.

Well well, six million people ehh? every day? Would that be a rational
reasonable statistic? have they been counted? smells like spin to me.

But: When a bus driver can't pull in because the stop is full of cars,
or obstructed by cars then it is not down to the bus. If traffic wardens
spent their time targeting behaviour that actually obstructs traffic
everyone would be better off.


What is your solution to the problem? I have already written why I think
delaying car drivers for a short while is OK. Before, buses were unable
to pull out in traffic. Now, they can. If the solution inconveniences
those who are considerate, maybe they will increase peer pressure on
those who are not, and change their behaviour.


There are lots of dreadful drivers in London, behind the wheels of all
kinds of vehicles, public service included.

For the record, I nearly always let buses and taxis pull out ahead of me,
providing they indicate their intention sufficiently in advance that I
can
slow down slightly without needing to brake, creating a gap into which
they
can pull. I sometimes get hooted from vehicles behind and once a bicycle
decided to overtake me on the left, narrowly escaping being sandwiched
between the bus and my nearside front wing - some people just cannot read
the road ahead of them!



It's amazing, isn't it. If only all drivers were as good as those who
post to newsgroups! (Actually, why not brake to let buses pull out? I
don't understand that point.)


Why not indeed? When a bus is stopped on a busy road it isn't going to
get out (just as a car is not going to get out of a side road) unless
people use speed and lane discipline to facilitate each other. And a lot
of the time we do, or there would be vehicles full of skeletons all over
the roads.

I really am all for a higher standard of driving. How about the
professionals setting a good example?

A


--
Nick H (UK)

Annabel Smyth wrote:

Nick H (UK) wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 10 Oct 2004:


Why not move bus routes to minor roads?


Because they'd block them completely.


And why can't other drivers actually *use* bus lanes when available?


Because at those hours, the bus lane is invariably blocked by parked
cars.

Which is fine, if parking is allowed at those hours.

However, I often find that the bus lane is clear and empty.

This however, also encourages overtaking in the left, which is
fundamentally dangerous.


--
Nick H (UK)

Piccadilly Pilot wrote:

Philip Mason wrote:

I can confirm I have been on the wrong side of a bus when the driver
decided that he would just pull out. it was on a wide road in London,
where I would have had enough space to overtake a "normal" road
vehicle which would have been pulling out from the same spot.
However, the bus decided it would indicate and, simultaneously, pull
out right into the side of my car. Luckily only minor scratches were
obtained, but it could easily have been much worse if, as you state,
My car were a bicycle or motorbike!

Current government policy is to stop Londoners from enjoying the
roads as we should, and instead they are forcing everybody to travel
on the HIGHLY inadequate public transport. I am sure it will not be
long before TfL is taken to the EU Court of Human Rights by someone
who feels they have the right to choose comfort over bus



Since when has there been the right to drive a car?



Since when has there been a right to pay vast amounts of money in road
tax and duty on fuel?

Since when has there been a right to run buses on the road?

--
Nick H (UK)