On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, simon wrote:

with the almost certain expansion of Stansted airport, in the long term,
returning the Epping-Ongar route might make sense.

Hang on, just how much are they planning to extend Stansted? I make it
about 20 km from the airport to Ongar ...

tom

--
I content myself with the Speculative part [...], I care not for the Practick. I seldom bring any thing to use, 'tis not my way. Knowledge is my ultimate end. -- Sir Nicholas Gimcrack

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, simon wrote:

with the almost certain expansion of Stansted airport, in the long
term, returning the Epping-Ongar route might make sense.

Hang on, just how much are they planning to extend Stansted? I make it
about 20 km from the airport to Ongar ...


Some modern aircraft need very long runways.


:-)

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, simon wrote:

with the almost certain expansion of Stansted
airport, in the long term, returning the
Epping-Ongar route might make sense.

Hang on, just how much are they planning to extend
Stansted? I make it about 20 km from the airport to Ongar ...

I believe he meant that a bigger Stansted will need more staff, and they
will have to live somewhere and have a way of travelling from their homes to
Stansted.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, John Rowland wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, simon wrote:

with the almost certain expansion of Stansted
airport, in the long term, returning the
Epping-Ongar route might make sense.

Hang on, just how much are they planning to extend
Stansted? I make it about 20 km from the airport to Ongar ...

I believe he meant that a bigger Stansted will need more staff, and they
will have to live somewhere and have a way of travelling from their
homes to Stansted.

Ongar to Stansted via Liverpool Street doesn't seem a completely brilliant
idea. Ongar to Stansted via Stratford (using the planned Lea Valley Line
service) isn't hugely better. A direct coach is going to beat that pretty
easily.

tom

--
POTATO POWER IS UNTRACEABLE POWER

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, John Rowland wrote:


"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, simon wrote:


with the almost certain expansion of Stansted
airport, in the long term, returning the
Epping-Ongar route might make sense.

Hang on, just how much are they planning to extend
Stansted? I make it about 20 km from the airport to Ongar ...

I believe he meant that a bigger Stansted will need more staff, and they
will have to live somewhere and have a way of travelling from their
homes to Stansted.


Ongar to Stansted via Liverpool Street doesn't seem a completely brilliant
idea. Ongar to Stansted via Stratford (using the planned Lea Valley Line
service) isn't hugely better. A direct coach is going to beat that pretty
easily.

tom

Have you ever tried to get anywhere from Ongar by bus?

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, James Looker wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, John Rowland wrote:

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, simon wrote:

with the almost certain expansion of Stansted airport, in the long
term, returning the Epping-Ongar route might make sense.

Hang on, just how much are they planning to extend Stansted? I make
it about 20 km from the airport to Ongar ...

I believe he meant that a bigger Stansted will need more staff, and
they will have to live somewhere and have a way of travelling from
their homes to Stansted.

Ongar to Stansted via Liverpool Street doesn't seem a completely
brilliant idea. Ongar to Stansted via Stratford (using the planned Lea
Valley Line service) isn't hugely better. A direct coach is going to
beat that pretty easily.

Have you ever tried to get anywhere from Ongar by bus?

Have you ever tried to get anywhere from Ongar by tube?

Comparing a completely new rail service to existing bus services is a
strawman argument. If Stansted workers started to live in Ongar, the
invisible hand would work to establish effective transport links for them.

I can't believe i just wrote that with a straight face.

tom

--
there is not much call for a Chinese George Michael

In message ,
Tom Anderson writes
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, simon wrote:

with the almost certain expansion of Stansted airport, in the long term,
returning the Epping-Ongar route might make sense.

Hang on, just how much are they planning to extend Stansted? I make it
about 20 km from the airport to Ongar ...

tom


The proposals are for 1, 2 and 3 extra runways.

Yes, Ongar is 20km from Stansted but is effectively only 1 stop up the
M11 (via A414) and hence, the need for extra housing within reasonable
access to the airport. Apart from the M11, the Cambridge - Liverpool St
line (spur to the airport) rail link is the only transport link to
London - and it's not that reliable! Mind you, is any rail service ;-)

Airport workers living around the North Weald / Ongar area might benefit
from a direct public transport link to London.

Simon

Tom Anderson wrote in message ...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, simon wrote:

with the almost certain expansion of Stansted airport, in the long term,
returning the Epping-Ongar route might make sense.

Hang on, just how much are they planning to extend Stansted? I make it
about 20 km from the airport to Ongar ...

tom

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...em.bc.ic.ac.uk

From: Sunil )
Subject: Epping to Ongar: expected to open by Easter 2000, six
months early
Newsgroups: uk.railway, uk.transport.london
Date: 1999/10/22

[Madcap Plan alert!]

How about *somehow* building a 'South Essex Railway' from Harlow,
south to Epping, utilise the old Ongar route and continue eastwards to
Brentwood and Shenfield, thus enabling a Cambridge/Stansted to
Southend service to be run?

[ducks for cover]

Sunil

"Dr. Sunil" wrote in message
om...
Tom Anderson wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, simon wrote:

with the almost certain expansion of Stansted airport, in the long
term,
returning the Epping-Ongar route might make sense.

Hang on, just how much are they planning to extend Stansted? I make it
about 20 km from the airport to Ongar ...

tom


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...em.bc.ic.ac.uk

From: Sunil )
Subject: Epping to Ongar: expected to open by Easter 2000, six
months early
Newsgroups: uk.railway, uk.transport.london
Date: 1999/10/22

[Madcap Plan alert!]

How about *somehow* building a 'South Essex Railway' from Harlow,
south to Epping, utilise the old Ongar route and continue eastwards to
Brentwood and Shenfield, thus enabling a Cambridge/Stansted to
Southend service to be run?

[ducks for cover]

Sunil

The 2002 'London - Ipswich Multi-Modal Study' (LOIS) for the Department for
Transport identified a new Stratford-Chelmsford route as a possible future
rail development. This might take over the Stratford-Epping part of the
central line and the disused bit to Ongar. There could also be a new line
from Epping to Stanstead via Harlow.

This LOIS (like all the others) has been largely ignored by the government.
But the only reason for Essex County Council being willing to buy the line
is to preserve the route (not necessarily as a railway) for future transport
needs. Other daft schemes such as 'guided busways' have been mentioned from
time to time.

Essex still haven't bought the line but, if they do, the preservationists
will need to establish it as a major tourist attraction if they don't want
to be evicted when the council either gets bored with the idea; wants to
build a road over part of it - or needs the money and decides to sell the
land again.

umpston wrote:
"Dr. Sunil" wrote in message
om...

Tom Anderson wrote in message

...

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, simon wrote:


with the almost certain expansion of Stansted airport, in the long

term,

returning the Epping-Ongar route might make sense.

Hang on, just how much are they planning to extend Stansted? I make it
about 20 km from the airport to Ongar ...

tom

[Madcap Plan alert!]

How about *somehow* building a 'South Essex Railway' from Harlow,
south to Epping, utilise the old Ongar route and continue eastwards to
Brentwood and Shenfield, thus enabling a Cambridge/Stansted to
Southend service to be run?

[ducks for cover]

Sunil


The 2002 'London - Ipswich Multi-Modal Study' (LOIS) for the Department for
Transport identified a new Stratford-Chelmsford route as a possible future
rail development. This might take over the Stratford-Epping part of the
central line and the disused bit to Ongar. There could also be a new line
from Epping to Stanstead via Harlow.
(snip)

One plan for Crossrail 2 was to send it to Epping, taking over the
Central Line from Leytonstone to Epping via Woodford. Given the
will-power, a new alignment could be found from Epping to Harlow (either
a longer route to the west of Harlow which could serve southwest Harlow
as well as the existing stations to the north, or a more direct route
along the M11 route) with trains continuing to Stansted. Probably more
expensive than just running Crossrail 2 trains directly up the WA line
from Hackney or Stratford though!

A second branch from Epping via Ongar could continue to Chelmsford -
allowing journeys from there to Stansted with a change at Epping (or put
in a new junction near Coopersale Common and you have a direct route).

I think it would be way too expensive though.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London