--- Jim Brown said:

If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for
them now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was
put underground (Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would
a tunnel connecting Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible?
Or do the tube lines around there make it impossible?

Interesting idea, Jim... There's also the problem of the slope down
from the high-level platforms at London Bridge to below the level of the
river bed. Especially since the line also has to curve from east-west
to north-south as it drops.

Solar Penguin wrote:
--- Jim Brown said:


If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for
them now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was
put underground (Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would
a tunnel connecting Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible?
Or do the tube lines around there make it impossible?


Interesting idea, Jim... There's also the problem of the slope down
from the high-level platforms at London Bridge to below the level of the
river bed. Especially since the line also has to curve from east-west
to north-south as it drops.

Surely the way to make this work is to build new tube-level platforms at
Cannon St and London Bridge, and break the surface east of London
Bridge? Of course that would increase your price by just a few quid.

Robin

"R.C. Payne" wrote in message ...
Solar Penguin wrote:
--- Jim Brown said:


If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for
them now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was
put underground (Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would
a tunnel connecting Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible?
Or do the tube lines around there make it impossible?


Interesting idea, Jim... There's also the problem of the slope down
from the high-level platforms at London Bridge to below the level of the
river bed. Especially since the line also has to curve from east-west
to north-south as it drops.

Surely the way to make this work is to build new tube-level platforms at
Cannon St and London Bridge, and break the surface east of London
Bridge? Of course that would increase your price by just a few quid.

Well yes I kind of presumed underground platforms at London Bridge but
I didnt make that explicit. But as a ball park figure and assuming you
could slot it into the London Bridge rebuild I'm guessing it would
cost £3/4 billion. Of course the question then is which line(s) south
of the river would be best to used for a new cross-london service?

In message , at
02:33:12 on Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Jim Brown remarked:
Well yes I kind of presumed underground platforms at London Bridge but
I didnt make that explicit.

Isn't the Jubilee Line in the way?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote in message o.uk...
In message , at
02:33:12 on Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Jim Brown remarked:
Well yes I kind of presumed underground platforms at London Bridge but
I didnt make that explicit.

Isn't the Jubilee Line in the way?

This was my original question, is it physically feasible or is the
ground to congested around there with other burrowings?

In message , at
08:14:53 on Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Jim Brown remarked:
Isn't the Jubilee Line in the way?

This was my original question, is it physically feasible or is the
ground to congested around there with other burrowings?

Are you attempting to shadow the Cannon St line, but Underground? If so,
I think you'd need to cross under the Northern, and be parallel to,
under, the Jubilee. Don't forget that they are planning to build a huge
tower block over LB station, too. The foundations for that are going to
be "interesting", in any event!
--
Roland Perry

On 13 Oct 2004, Jim Brown wrote:

"R.C. Payne" wrote in message ...
Solar Penguin wrote:
--- Jim Brown said:

If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for
them now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was put
underground (Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would a tunnel
connecting Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible? Or do the tube
lines around there make it impossible?

Interesting idea, Jim... There's also the problem of the slope down
from the high-level platforms at London Bridge to below the level of
the river bed. Especially since the line also has to curve from
east-west to north-south as it drops.

Surely the way to make this work is to build new tube-level platforms
at Cannon St and London Bridge, and break the surface east of London
Bridge? Of course that would increase your price by just a few quid.

Well yes I kind of presumed underground platforms at London Bridge but I
didnt make that explicit. But as a ball park figure and assuming you
could slot it into the London Bridge rebuild I'm guessing it would cost
£3/4 billion. Of course the question then is which line(s) south of the
river would be best to used for a new cross-london service?

Dartford. What i'd do is surface as soon as possible onto the northernmost
pair of tracks heading into (or out of) London Bridge, then run down to
Lewisham (via a new station at the proposed Deptford Park ELL station),
then out over all three routes to Dartford. You could run out to Ebbsfleet
as well, if you liked. Ideally, you'd run a tube-style service.

All this would interfere with other lines, like Crossrail (which is going
to use part of the North Kent Line), mainline services from beyond
Dartford (which would have to share with the metro as far as Lewisham) and
the line (the Greenwich Line?) from London Bridge to Charlton. I'd solve
the first two by fiddling about with Crossrail: beyond Canary Wharf, keep
going south, to Lewisham, then turn and go to Dartford, still in tunnel;
mainline trains could then use the tunnel to get to Lewisham, and carry on
as normal from there, via another portal. Alternatively, don't get quite
so radical with Crossrail, just follow the existing route but all in
tunnel, and four-track one of the Dartford-Lewisham lines for the mainline
(which is probably impossible - although probably cheaper than the ~100
million mile tunnel needed in the other option). The Greenwich Line, i'd
transfer to the ELL - you just need a little tiny connection through some
mangy trading estate around TQ366777; you'd lose the ELL service to New
Cross, but New Cross would gain the metro in return.

In other news, are Crossrail seriously not proposing a station at London
City Airport? Is that what Custom House is supposed to be for? I think we
discussed this, but most Crossrail stuff goes right over my head.

tom

--
POTATO POWER IS UNTRACEABLE POWER

Tom Anderson wrote:
On 13 Oct 2004, Jim Brown wrote:


"R.C. Payne" wrote in message ...

Solar Penguin wrote:

--- Jim Brown said:


If the Bank of England sacrificed its vaults (Very little use for
them now, with the gold sold off) and Cannon Street St was put
underground (Plus a new tunnel under the Thames), would a tunnel
connecting Moorgate and London Bridge be feasible? Or do the tube
lines around there make it impossible?

Interesting idea, Jim... There's also the problem of the slope down
from the high-level platforms at London Bridge to below the level of
the river bed. Especially since the line also has to curve from
east-west to north-south as it drops.

Surely the way to make this work is to build new tube-level platforms
at Cannon St and London Bridge, and break the surface east of London
Bridge? Of course that would increase your price by just a few quid.

Well yes I kind of presumed underground platforms at London Bridge but I
didnt make that explicit. But as a ball park figure and assuming you
could slot it into the London Bridge rebuild I'm guessing it would cost
£3/4 billion. Of course the question then is which line(s) south of the
river would be best to used for a new cross-london service?


Dartford. What i'd do is surface as soon as possible onto the northernmost
pair of tracks heading into (or out of) London Bridge, then run down to
Lewisham (via a new station at the proposed Deptford Park ELL station),

(ears prick up at sound of possible project)
Do you have any details on that proposal?

(snip)

In other news, are Crossrail seriously not proposing a station at London
City Airport? Is that what Custom House is supposed to be for? I think we
discussed this, but most Crossrail stuff goes right over my head.

Crossrail will use the NLL alignment from Custom House to near North
Woolwich - so it will actually pass through Silvertown station. However
since they're it doesn't appear on any of their plans, I presume it is
scheduled for closure - especially given that it is around 7 mins' walk
from the airport whereas the DLR's new station will be right outside the
terminal building.

Nevertheless, since Crossrail interchange with the DLR will be at Custom
House and not Canning Town, getting to LCY from Crossrail will either
involve changing at Stratford from the west/northeast or catching SET to
Woolwich Arsenal from the southeast.

I'm not sure exactly why CLRL want to close Silvertown station. Could be
for engineering reasons, although the portal for their Gallions Reach
tunnel should be much further east. It might just be to speed up journey
times through an area which will be well-served by the new DLR branch,
which will eventually have trains running direct between Stratford -
Canning Town - City Airport - Woolwich Arsenal.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

In other news, are Crossrail seriously not proposing a station at London
City Airport? Is that what Custom House is supposed to be for? I think
we
discussed this, but most Crossrail stuff goes right over my head.

Crossrail will use the NLL alignment from Custom House to near North
Woolwich - so it will actually pass through Silvertown station. However
since they're it doesn't appear on any of their plans, I presume it is
scheduled for closure - especially given that it is around 7 mins' walk
from the airport whereas the DLR's new station will be right outside the
terminal building.

Nevertheless, since Crossrail interchange with the DLR will be at Custom
House and not Canning Town, getting to LCY from Crossrail will either
involve changing at Stratford from the west/northeast or catching SET to
Woolwich Arsenal from the southeast.

I'm not sure exactly why CLRL want to close Silvertown station. Could be
for engineering reasons, although the portal for their Gallions Reach
tunnel should be much further east. It might just be to speed up journey
times through an area which will be well-served by the new DLR branch,
which will eventually have trains running direct between Stratford -
Canning Town - City Airport - Woolwich Arsenal.

My thoughts exactly. I can't see why they won't put in a station for LCY,
given that it runs so close and the only other way from there would be DLR
to Bank (once the North Woolwich extension opens) which would take forever.

Angus

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Crossrail will use the NLL alignment from Custom House to near North
Woolwich - so it will actually pass through Silvertown station. However
since they're it doesn't appear on any of their plans, I presume it is
scheduled for closure - especially given that it is around 7 mins' walk
from the airport whereas the DLR's new station will be right outside the
terminal building.

I'm not sure exactly why CLRL want to close Silvertown station. Could be
for engineering reasons, although the portal for their Gallions Reach
tunnel should be much further east. It might just be to speed up journey
times through an area which will be well-served by the new DLR branch,
which will eventually have trains running direct between Stratford -
Canning Town - City Airport - Woolwich Arsenal.

I asked about this at a recent Crossrail information display, and was told
that Crossrail examined the possibility of retaining Silvertown station, but
there was no business case (even on a cost benefit basis). The station is
too far from the LCY terminal for sensible interchange (DLR from Central
London, or from Woolwich Arsenal for connection from SET stations makes more
sense), it would be expensive to upgrade the station for Crossrail (lengthen
platforms, make it accessible, etc), and there was a suggestion that the
trackbed would be lowered. Crossrail will use both tracks of the Connaught
tunnel, come up to ground level, and then descend again for the Gallions
Reach tunnel.

Peter