Hi all,

Rumour has it that now that Livingstone has ordered Private Hire vehicles
(minicabs) have to carry an identifiying sticker on the window, the Royal
Parks Police are pouncing on any who drive through Hyde Park and prosecuting
them under the law which bans signed commercial vehicles from the park!

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

"John Rowland" wrote in
:
Rumour has it that now that Livingstone has ordered Private Hire
vehicles (minicabs) have to carry an identifiying sticker on the
window, the Royal Parks Police are pouncing on any who drive through
Hyde Park and prosecuting them under the law which bans signed
commercial vehicles from the park!

So what is the the problem. If the law bans comercial vehicles then
the police are correct to "pounce on them".




--
Andrew Black
andrewblack at despammed.com
London

"Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)" wrote in
message ...
"John Rowland" wrote in
:
Rumour has it that now that Livingstone has ordered Private Hire
vehicles (minicabs) have to carry an identifiying sticker on the
window, the Royal Parks Police are pouncing on any who drive through
Hyde Park and prosecuting them under the law which bans signed
commercial vehicles from the park!

So what is the the problem. If the law bans comercial vehicles then
the police are correct to "pounce on them".


The problem is that the prohibition is absurd - why not allow minicabs in
the park?

"umpston" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)" wrote
in
message ...
"John Rowland" wrote in
:
Rumour has it that now that Livingstone has ordered Private Hire
vehicles (minicabs) have to carry an identifiying sticker on the
window, the Royal Parks Police are pouncing on any who drive through
Hyde Park and prosecuting them under the law which bans signed
commercial vehicles from the park!

So what is the the problem. If the law bans comercial vehicles then
the police are correct to "pounce on them".

Only if it's a good law.

The problem is that the prohibition is absurd - why not allow minicabs in
the park?

Ah: someone who's prepared to challenge the law rather than just parrot its
details and absurdities. Just because something is enshrined in law doesn't
mean that it's a good law. In my mind, every law, every speed limit, every
restriction should be subject to public scrutiny and accountability, and if
it can no longer be justified in its current form it should be abolished or
amended to punish those you want to punish and to have no effect on those
you want to permit.

Yes, prohibit HGVs and maybe large delivery vans from Royal Parks, and
restrict when/where ice cream vans etc can trade: when you're sitting in the
tranquillity of a Royal Park, you don't want noisy/smelly HGVs trying to
negotiate the access roads and you don't want ice-cream chimes or smelly
hot-dog-stall fumes. But why should a car be allowed in if it's a private
car and excluded if the same make/model of car is a taxi? If there is a
demand for taxi journeys to/from the parks, or the park road is the most
direct route between two points, that demand should be satisfied. In my
mind, anywhere that a private car can go, a taxi should be allowed to go and
to ply for trade.

In message ,
Martin Underwood writes
If there is a
demand for taxi journeys to/from the parks, or the park road is the most
direct route between two points, that demand should be satisfied. In my
mind, anywhere that a private car can go, a taxi should be allowed to go and
to ply for trade.

Taxis *are* allowed to use the royal parks. They can and *do* ply for
hire in the royal parks. They received special dispensation to use the
parks with the liveried taxis.

I believe that the Public Carriage Office have raised the question of
*licensed* Private Hire vehicles (minicabs) being prosecuted for using
the parks so that the matter can be properly resolved one way or the
other.

In the case of taxis, they re supposed to use take the *shortest* route
to their destination (unless the customer agrees to a different route).
As taxis have meters any longer route will cost more. Minicabs do not
have meters and many of them quote a fixed price for the job.

There is a vast difference in the knowledge requirements between the two
of course. This is reflected in the fact that taxis can use most (but
not all) of the bus lanes, to encourage people to use them in preference
to their cars.


--
Mike Hughes
A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton
at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England

"Mike Hughes" wrote in message
...
In message ,
Martin Underwood writes
If there is a
demand for taxi journeys to/from the parks, or the park road is the most
direct route between two points, that demand should be satisfied. In my
mind, anywhere that a private car can go, a taxi should be allowed to go
and
to ply for trade.

Taxis *are* allowed to use the royal parks. They can and *do* ply for
hire in the royal parks. They received special dispensation to use the
parks with the liveried taxis.

I believe that the Public Carriage Office have raised the question of
*licensed* Private Hire vehicles (minicabs) being prosecuted for using
the parks so that the matter can be properly resolved one way or the
other.

In the case of taxis, they re supposed to use take the *shortest* route
to their destination (unless the customer agrees to a different route).
As taxis have meters any longer route will cost more. Minicabs do not
have meters and many of them quote a fixed price for the job.

There is a vast difference in the knowledge requirements between the two
of course. This is reflected in the fact that taxis can use most (but
not all) of the bus lanes, to encourage people to use them in preference
to their cars.

Ah, so the information in the OP was incorrect - I was just quoting it and
assuming that it was correct.

What precisely is the difference between a taxi and a minicab? Do minicabs
have to carry a licensing plate (quoting registration number and maximum
number of occupants) like taxis do? How does a user know whether he's
getting into a taxi or a minicab?

Having only rarely used "taxis" (in the widest sense of the word) I'd
assumed that all such vehicles charged by distance (with surcharges for
number of people, for night-time and for en-route waiting time) - I hadn't
realised that minicabs negotiate an up-front charge. I believe that taxis
are allowed to be hailed in the street by passing pedestrians, whereas
minicabs can only be hired by phone to pick up at a stated address, but I'm
sure whenever I've booked "a taxi" to call for me at home, it's always had a
meter and I've been charged exactly what is described on that meter.

"John Rowland" wrote:

Rumour has it that now that Livingstone has ordered Private Hire vehicles
(minicabs) have to carry an identifiying sticker on the window, the Royal
Parks Police are pouncing on any who drive through Hyde Park and prosecuting
them under the law which bans signed commercial vehicles from the park!

The law (section 4(27) of the Royal Parks and Other Open Spaces Regulations
1997 http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1997/97163901.htm) prohibits
unauthorised persons from "drive or ride any vehicle which is constructed,
adapted or in use for the purpose of a trade or business", whether the
vehicle is signed or not (people who use vans for personal trips take note
-- the regulation says "constructed *or* adapted *or* in use" for trade --
if it's a van it's not allowed in, even if you're not using it for business
at the time).

Minicabs, as vehicles used for carrying on a business, have always been
prohibited from entering any of the Royal Parks (Hyde Park, Kensington
Gardens, St. James' Park, Green Park, Regent's Park, Greenwich Park,
Richmond Park and Bushy Park -- as well as various other places that don't
have any roads and so aren't relevant here). The new licensing of minicabs
doesn't make them any more or less allowed into the parks, it just makes
them easier to spot.

There is a specific regulation (Part 1(1) of Schedule 2 of the regulations)
that allows taxis to enter the parks, but not to ply for trade (because that
would be a breach of regulation 4(6).

Wishing you'd never asked?


Matt Ashby
www.mattashby.com

"Matt Ashby" wrote in message
om...

Wishing you'd never asked?

Not at all, thanks. I suppose motorcycle couriers are banned from the parks
as well.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

John Rowland wrote:
"Matt Ashby" wrote in message
om...

Wishing you'd never asked?

Not at all, thanks. I suppose motorcycle couriers are banned from the
parks as well.

Indeed they are. There was a case highlighted in the press a number of years
ago when motorcycle couriers from one of the major companys were knicked for
being in one of the parks. The riders were wearing printed reflective
tabards and had the usual stickers. A couple of the bosses decided to go
horse riding in the royal parks, wearing the comnpanys printed tabard etc.

A horse is not a vehicle so plod couild do nothing.

"Brimstone" wrote:
Indeed they are. There was a case highlighted in the press a number of years
ago when motorcycle couriers from one of the major companys were knicked for
being in one of the parks. The riders were wearing printed reflective
tabards and had the usual stickers. A couple of the bosses decided to go
horse riding in the royal parks, wearing the comnpanys printed tabard etc.

A horse is not a vehicle so plod couild do nothing.

Point of order: Regulation 4(8) - prohibits anyone from "exhibit any notice or
advertisement or any other written or pictorial matter" without permission.
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1997/97163901.htm

Basically if it's fun, you can't do it in a Royal Park.


Matt Ashby
www.mattashby.com