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#121
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"Pete Biggs" wrote in message ...
Silas Denyer wrote: Personally I think the only solution is compulsory registration of bicycles, with clearly-displayed plates, or perhaps compulsory registration of the riders How about compulsary shooting of every motorist who breaks the speed limit. Sod off you miserable crunt and don't cross-post to uk.rec.cycling again. ~PB Thanks for the vote. I'm sorry, but I believe my post was directly relevant to the charters of bothe u.t.l and u.r.c, and the volume of debate has been high from both camps. You don't actually have to read the thread if you don't want to :-) Silas |
#122
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"David Splett" wrote in message ...
"Silas Denyer" wrote in message m... Last week I had to drive (in a car) across London. I made a note of all cyclists I saw with red traffic lights against them, and their behaviour. Of 182 I encountered on my (fairly long and, as you'll gather, dull) drive, only 8 stopped at a red light against them - less than 5%. Right. If you were really making such meticulous notes of cyclists, you couldn't have been paying proper attention to your own driving. Well, I was stopped at the red lights in question, so that wasn't really a problem. I suggest that I was concentrating rather harder than the cyclists in question. Personally I think the only solution is compulsory registration of bicycles, with clearly-displayed plates, or perhaps compulsory registration of the riders (plate on the back of a mandatory reflective jacket, perhaps). This isn't trivial law-breaking - this is anarchy in which business, the police, and the general public are wholesale ignoring the law of the land, and frequently endangering the lives of pedestrians (yes, lives - cyclist hitting pedestrian can and does result in death). Who wants to join my petition? Not me. Get a life. So I take it that you condone these activities and the breakdown of law? Silas |
#123
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"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message . ..
On 16 Oct 2004 05:58:53 -0700, (Silas Denyer) wrote in message : I think there will shortly be a significant backlash against cyclists, from *all* sections of the community. LOL! Been living in a hole the last few years, have you? Guy Bizarrely, I've lived and worked in a many "cyclist-friendly" places, such as Oxford where the "reclaim the streets" lot actually managed to get cars pretty much banned from the city centre (along with most of the customers for local businesses, but, hey, the cycling's great now...). Most people I know don't actually hate cyclists per se, and most of my social circle are in fact cyclists and "career pedestrians" rather than motorists. However I don't think I've ever seen such a complete disregard for the law as I see now, hence my original post. The not-so-recent EU proposal to make motorists responsible for all accidents involving cyclists didn't help, of course, and I must admit that the current tarring of motorists with the brush of "sinners" isn't too helpful either, but above I simply believe that good old social conscience, disapproval, comment, personal and local engagement, etc. are a terribly good way to get things to change for the better. Silas |
#124
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On 17 Oct 2004 08:12:17 -0700, (Silas Denyer)
wrote in message : That isn't the point - widespread lawlessness amongst one section of the road-using community will IMHO inevitably lead to an increase in the same or similar behaviour by other sections. "The trouble with the facts about the law-breaking of the motorists and the motor interests is that there are too many: it is difficult even to grasp them. In fact, the position has long since passed far beyond the limits of ordinary law-breaking and become an exhibition of national degeneracy." - JS Dean, 1947. Not much has changed since, except that there are now far more of them. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University |
#125
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Silas Denyer wrote:
The "institutionalised" was referring to a number of issues: 1. The law breaking of the police 2. The acceptance into mainstream business of law breaking as a competitive advantage 3. The failure of all institutions (including nebulous ones such as the general population) to deal with the problem. Hope that clarifies things - I was, and am, serious about the issues proposed in the original post. There are two issues. Cycling on pavements and running red lights. For the first, virtually all the cyclists in the urc half of this cross post do not ride on the pavement because we know it is both more dangerous for us as cyclists and less convenient irrespective of the fact that pedestrians don't like it. For most people though, thanks to government and the police it is a very confusing message. Government misguidedly selects bits of pavement at random, paints white bicycles on them and say cyclists "the roads are dangerous, please cycle on this bit of pavement instead". Is it any wonder then that people get conditioned to thinking cycling on the pavement is the safe and correct thing to do even when it doesn't have the magic white paint on it? Those of us who cycle on the road get regularly harangued by motorists telling us to "ride on the f***ing pavement" because they too think the magic white means pavements are for cyclists, roads are for cars. I've had people stop and get out of their cars to verbally abuse me for riding on the road. I still ride on the road though and not on the pavement, magic paint or not and I just wish government would stop all this stupid shared use pavements nonsense. For the second, you will also find virtually no-one in urc who approves of it. It is illegal and gives us a bad name as do stealth cyclists without lights at night. I would welcome a crack down on cyclists doing it and it does occasionally happen. However as illustrated the rapidly rising number of motorist speeding prosecutions and red light jumping prosecutions, greater enforcement does not seem to have much effect. I am frequently sat at red lights on my cycle in London with cyclists, cars, taxis and buses carrying on past me. I am afraid I am just in a minority of all London road users in respecting the lights. It doesn't need all the paraphernalia you suggest of license plates on bikes. First I am not sure where I could find to put one on mine and second its been an abject failure with cars. What it needs is police or wardens on the ground with a zero tolerance approach. However we all know how likely that is to happen. Tony |
#126
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On 17 Oct 2004 08:09:17 -0700, (Silas Denyer)
wrote in message : 1. The law breaking of the police Yes, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/3147201.stm - two police officers thought it was perfectly acceptable to knowingly speed not because the limit was incorrectly signed, but because the warning of prosecution had the wrong colour border? 2. The acceptance into mainstream business of law breaking as a competitive advantage Speeding, you mean? 3. The failure of all institutions (including nebulous ones such as the general population) to deal with the problem. Indeed. When cameras are erected they rail about the "stealth tax" on lawbreakers rather than laughing at those prosecuted. Oh wait, you weren't talking about the ones who kill 3,000 a year were you? Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University |
#127
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#129
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On 17 Oct 2004 08:22:53 -0700, (Silas Denyer)
wrote in message : Pedestrians should have the right to cross at crossings without fear of being hit - by *anything*. Unfortunately large numbers of pedestrians are killed every year on crossings. But not by cyclists, which invites the question: why pick on them? One possible answer lies in the definition of a pedestrian as "a person who has found somewhere to park the car". Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University |
#130
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