Yes Kevin...thats about it. Remember its a private company that runs the
ticket system and it was a cast off from another place....
It has no idea you went through Z1. So it opens the gates in a
Z2...regardless of where it is.

"Kevin" wrote in message
m...
"Malcolm & Nika" wrote in message
...
So I went to Vauxhall and checked out what you said.
Sure enough there was a revenue exercise there yesterday.
You ask what it is that they can see that the gates dont?

They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1 without a
zone
1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the nice colour
triangles...easy
to spot without actually reading the ticket. If it was bought north of
the
river in a zone 3 to a zone 2 station it will have north colourings. It
will
still let you out in a zone 2 station allowing you to travel through zone
1.
RPI sees the north colour triangles, checks it is valid in Z1....hey
presto
if its only a £1 ticket....
Incidentally...they caught heaps.

So is the coding on a paper ticket not smart enough to establish that
a journey is made across zone 1. It seems pretty fundemental to me. If
you buy a zone 2 ticket at say Chalk Farm then travel to Vauxhall then
you must have crossed zone 1. The gates have only been around for
about 15 years, couldn't that check have been part of the programme or
am I missing something here. Do the gates only check the validity of
the date and that the exit zone matches the zone on the ticket.

Kevin

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
All tickets purchased outside Z1 have the triangles.
Blue,yellow,green red. For North, south, east and west issuing.
Cant remember which area is what colour. Havent checked a ticket for a
while!!


"Dave Liney" wrote in message
. ..

"Malcolm & Nika" wrote in message
...


They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1 without a
zone 1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the nice colour
triangles

What colours are used? And how large are the triangles? I've always had
seasons that include zone 1 so I've not seen them.

Dave




It's only if you buy the ticket outside zone 1, even a ticket with zone
1 validity will have triangles if it's bought outside zone 1. the
triangles are about 1/3 to 1/2 the height of the ticket, and there's
normally a row of about 3 or 4 pointing upwards at the bottom.

afaik the colours a

red: north
green: east
blue: south
yellow: west

(central: nothing)

sorry this is a bit hazy, not had a lu-issued paper ticket for a while!

the boundaries aren't exactly intuitive either (eg canada water is east,
not south)

NB i might have got red and blue reversed, but i *think* this is the way
it works

Malcolm & Nika wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
m...

So is the coding on a paper ticket not smart enough to establish
that a journey is made across zone 1. It seems pretty
fundemental to me. If you buy a zone 2 ticket at say Chalk Farm
then travel to Vauxhall then you must have crossed zone 1.

Chalk Farm - Camden Town (Northern)
Camden Town - Kentish Town (Northern)
Kentish Town - West Hampstead (Silverlink)
West Hampstead - Richmond (Silverlink)
Richmond - Vauxhall (SWT)
-- all in zones 2/3/4. Or via Willesden Jn - Clapham Jn in zones 2/3.

The gates have only been around for about 15 years, couldn't
that check have been part of the programme or am I missing
something here. Do the gates only check the validity of the
date and that the exit zone matches the zone on the ticket.

The program can't establish that the journey includes zone 1, so they
let you through. Some people do take longer journeys in order to avoid
zone 1.

Yes Kevin...thats about it. Remember its a private company that
runs the ticket system and it was a cast off from another place....

I don't know what your point is. Which company was "cast off" from which
other place? The fact that LU contracted out the ticketing system isn't
relevant, as LU should have specified the ticketing rules.

It has no idea you went through Z1. So it opens the gates in a
Z2...regardless of where it is.

Well, at least I agree with that!
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:
Malcolm & Nika wrote:

"Kevin" wrote in message
. com...


So is the coding on a paper ticket not smart enough to establish
that a journey is made across zone 1. It seems pretty
fundemental to me. If you buy a zone 2 ticket at say Chalk Farm
then travel to Vauxhall then you must have crossed zone 1.

Chalk Farm - Camden Town (Northern)
Camden Town - Kentish Town (Northern)
Kentish Town - West Hampstead (Silverlink)
West Hampstead - Richmond (Silverlink)
Richmond - Vauxhall (SWT)
-- all in zones 2/3/4. Or via Willesden Jn - Clapham Jn in zones 2/3.

We're talking about singles - you can't use an LU single on SWT or
between West Brompton & Clapham Junction. There's no way to check where
someone using a Z234 Travelcard started.

Basically it looks like now you can use multizone non-Z1 singles to get
anywhere within west, north or east London legally - the only
"disconnected" part is the Victoria and Northern lines south of Z1.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:14:47 GMT, "Malcolm & Nika"
wrote:

"Kevin" wrote in message
om...
"Malcolm & Nika" wrote in message
...
So I went to Vauxhall and checked out what you said.
Sure enough there was a revenue exercise there yesterday.
You ask what it is that they can see that the gates dont?

They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1 without a
zone
1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the nice colour
triangles...easy
to spot without actually reading the ticket. If it was bought north of
the
river in a zone 3 to a zone 2 station it will have north colourings. It
will
still let you out in a zone 2 station allowing you to travel through zone
1.
RPI sees the north colour triangles, checks it is valid in Z1....hey
presto
if its only a £1 ticket....
Incidentally...they caught heaps.

So is the coding on a paper ticket not smart enough to establish that
a journey is made across zone 1. It seems pretty fundemental to me. If
you buy a zone 2 ticket at say Chalk Farm then travel to Vauxhall then
you must have crossed zone 1. The gates have only been around for
about 15 years, couldn't that check have been part of the programme or
am I missing something here. Do the gates only check the validity of
the date and that the exit zone matches the zone on the ticket.

I'm not going to go into detail about the coding practice (as I do know
exactly how it works) but I think people need to separate their thoughts
between how single tickets work and how season based tickets work.
There are different validities that apply and therefore different checks
performed by the gates.

Yes Kevin...thats about it. Remember its a private company that runs the
ticket system and it was a cast off from another place....

Would you care to tell me where it was cast off from as I worked on it
for years and years and I'm not aware it's a "cast off" from anywhere.

Oh and I was involved in the Prestige deal and I'd love to know what
difference contracting Transys to run the system makes? Do you imagine
that commercial policy has been ceded to the private sector as well?

If you're going to make statements then get your facts right.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Dave Arquati wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
Malcolm & Nika wrote:

"Kevin" wrote in message
m...


So is the coding on a paper ticket not smart enough to establish
that a journey is made across zone 1. It seems pretty
fundemental to me. If you buy a zone 2 ticket at say Chalk Farm
then travel to Vauxhall then you must have crossed zone 1.

Chalk Farm - Camden Town (Northern)
Camden Town - Kentish Town (Northern)
Kentish Town - West Hampstead (Silverlink)
West Hampstead - Richmond (Silverlink)
Richmond - Vauxhall (SWT)
-- all in zones 2/3/4. Or via Willesden Jn - Clapham Jn in
zones 2/3.

We're talking about singles - you can't use an LU single on SWT or
between West Brompton & Clapham Junction. There's no way to check
where someone using a Z234 Travelcard started.

Fair point.

Basically it looks like now you can use multizone non-Z1 singles to
get anywhere within west, north or east London legally

Do you really mean "legally"? ... or just that the gates don't spot the
illegality?
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:

Richard J. wrote:

Malcolm & Nika wrote:


"Kevin" wrote in message
e.com...


So is the coding on a paper ticket not smart enough to establish
that a journey is made across zone 1. It seems pretty
fundemental to me. If you buy a zone 2 ticket at say Chalk Farm
then travel to Vauxhall then you must have crossed zone 1.

Chalk Farm - Camden Town (Northern)
Camden Town - Kentish Town (Northern)
Kentish Town - West Hampstead (Silverlink)
West Hampstead - Richmond (Silverlink)
Richmond - Vauxhall (SWT)
-- all in zones 2/3/4. Or via Willesden Jn - Clapham Jn in
zones 2/3.

We're talking about singles - you can't use an LU single on SWT or
between West Brompton & Clapham Junction. There's no way to check
where someone using a Z234 Travelcard started.


Fair point.


Basically it looks like now you can use multizone non-Z1 singles to
get anywhere within west, north or east London legally


Do you really mean "legally"? ... or just that the gates don't spot the
illegality?

I meant legally, e.g. if you hold a Z234 single issued in West London
(say at Greenford) and you arrive at a ticket inspection at Bermondsey,
you could legitimately have travelled there via North Acton, Ealing Bdy,
Turnham Green, Gunnersbury and Stratford. Now admittedly that journey
would probably take all day, but the ticket inspectors can't just give
you a penalty fare (unless they check the time of issue of the ticket
and see that your journey time implies you travelled via Bank).

As for the gates, if they don't do any time comparisons, then they
should accept the ticket.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Thanks for repeating what i said.

The point regarding the ticketing system is that it wasn't tailor made. The
good bits were taken, so were the bad bits.Perhaps the people that
contracted it out said they only wanted to spend £2.50 and to make it the
best would have cost £2.75. You get what you pay for.
But they are trying to malke it better.


"Richard J." wrote in message
. uk...
Malcolm & Nika wrote:
"Kevin" wrote in message
m...

So is the coding on a paper ticket not smart enough to establish
that a journey is made across zone 1. It seems pretty
fundemental to me. If you buy a zone 2 ticket at say Chalk Farm
then travel to Vauxhall then you must have crossed zone 1.

Chalk Farm - Camden Town (Northern)
Camden Town - Kentish Town (Northern)
Kentish Town - West Hampstead (Silverlink)
West Hampstead - Richmond (Silverlink)
Richmond - Vauxhall (SWT)
-- all in zones 2/3/4. Or via Willesden Jn - Clapham Jn in zones 2/3.

The gates have only been around for about 15 years, couldn't
that check have been part of the programme or am I missing
something here. Do the gates only check the validity of the
date and that the exit zone matches the zone on the ticket.

The program can't establish that the journey includes zone 1, so they
let you through. Some people do take longer journeys in order to avoid
zone 1.

Yes Kevin...thats about it. Remember its a private company that
runs the ticket system and it was a cast off from another place....

I don't know what your point is. Which company was "cast off" from which
other place? The fact that LU contracted out the ticketing system isn't
relevant, as LU should have specified the ticketing rules.

It has no idea you went through Z1. So it opens the gates in a
Z2...regardless of where it is.

Well, at least I agree with that!
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

I see....so you're the one.....


"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:14:47 GMT, "Malcolm & Nika"
wrote:

"Kevin" wrote in message
. com...
"Malcolm & Nika" wrote in message
...
So I went to Vauxhall and checked out what you said.
Sure enough there was a revenue exercise there yesterday.
You ask what it is that they can see that the gates dont?

They are solely checking for people who travel through zone 1 without a
zone
1 ticket. This is marked on the ticket with the nice colour
triangles...easy
to spot without actually reading the ticket. If it was bought north of
the
river in a zone 3 to a zone 2 station it will have north colourings. It
will
still let you out in a zone 2 station allowing you to travel through
zone
1.
RPI sees the north colour triangles, checks it is valid in Z1....hey
presto
if its only a £1 ticket....
Incidentally...they caught heaps.

So is the coding on a paper ticket not smart enough to establish that
a journey is made across zone 1. It seems pretty fundemental to me. If
you buy a zone 2 ticket at say Chalk Farm then travel to Vauxhall then
you must have crossed zone 1. The gates have only been around for
about 15 years, couldn't that check have been part of the programme or
am I missing something here. Do the gates only check the validity of
the date and that the exit zone matches the zone on the ticket.

I'm not going to go into detail about the coding practice (as I do know
exactly how it works) but I think people need to separate their thoughts
between how single tickets work and how season based tickets work.
There are different validities that apply and therefore different checks
performed by the gates.

Yes Kevin...thats about it. Remember its a private company that runs the
ticket system and it was a cast off from another place....

Would you care to tell me where it was cast off from as I worked on it
for years and years and I'm not aware it's a "cast off" from anywhere.

Oh and I was involved in the Prestige deal and I'd love to know what
difference contracting Transys to run the system makes? Do you imagine
that commercial policy has been ceded to the private sector as well?

If you're going to make statements then get your facts right.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:53:26 GMT, "Malcolm & Nika"
wrote:

[SNIP]


I see....so you're the one.....

sorry but you'll need to explain the one liner.

And if you seriously imagine that only one person is involved in LU
ticketing then think again.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!