On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Richard J. wrote:

Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
Tom Anderson writes

On a more general note, how can one go about getting accurate
information about the routes of underground railways? Are there some
sort of official maps somewhere?

There is the map at the end of ...

http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl.../marketone.pdf

... it is not wonderfully detailed, but it does show that crossing
point south of Green Lanes.

But is that just luck? The map is wrong in other areas, for example the
Jubilee Line between Baker Street and Bond Street, or DLR at Bank.

I haven't yet found a fully accurate map.

But how do you know whether a map is accurate? That you can evaluate them
implies that you have some sort of authoritative source of knowledge about
the routes - which is what i'm after!

tom

--
see im down wid yo sci fi crew

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Richard J. wrote:

Paul Terry wrote:
In message
,
Tom Anderson writes

On a more general note, how can one go about getting accurate
information about the routes of underground railways? Are there
some sort of official maps somewhere?

There is the map at the end of ...

http://www.londontransport.co.uk/tfl.../marketone.pdf

... it is not wonderfully detailed, but it does show that crossing
point south of Green Lanes.

But is that just luck? The map is wrong in other areas, for
example the Jubilee Line between Baker Street and Bond Street, or
DLR at Bank.

I haven't yet found a fully accurate map.

But how do you know whether a map is accurate? That you can
evaluate them implies that you have some sort of authoritative
source of knowledge about the routes - which is what i'm after!

Sorry to disappoint you, but I don't know enough to be able to say that
any map is accurate. But I do know enough to show that some maps (well,
all that I have seen, actually) are inaccurate. In the case of DLR Bank
and the Piccadilly east of South Ken, simple observation shows that the
map is not accurate. The Jubilee route "south" of Baker Street actually
goes via Regent's Park; I know because there's a Jubilee Line
ventilation shaft in the gardens north of Regent's Park station. Having
said that, I think the map is nevertheless one of the best I've seen.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In message ,
at 20:28:53 on Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Tom Anderson
remarked:
But how do you know whether a map is accurate? That you can evaluate them
implies that you have some sort of authoritative source of knowledge about
the routes - which is what i'm after!

Maps like that have to be pieced together from a wide range of sources.
For example, the W&C map I posted a link to. An earlier in the year
there was a long discussion about the approaches to Morden (another
place where there's been a "joining the dots" rather than accurately
depicting the route). I've got some other original maps of the Northern
as it crosses the Thames. Others have spoken of the Piccadilly near
South Ken, and the Jubilee north of Baker St being formerly Bakerloo
makes the right-angle crossing shown rather implausible. I don't see a
huge bend at Bank-Central, which one observes when on the train. And so
on. Lots of little things to put together, each of which will improve
one small part.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, Roland Perry wrote:

In message ,
at 20:28:53 on Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Tom Anderson
remarked:

But how do you know whether a map is accurate? That you can evaluate
them implies that you have some sort of authoritative source of
knowledge about the routes - which is what i'm after!

Maps like that have to be pieced together from a wide range of sources.

That's what i was afraid of. The 'map' i'm after only exists inside the
minds of a few people who've spent years accumulating tube lore.

For example, the W&C map I posted a link to. An earlier in the year
there was a long discussion about the approaches to Morden (another
place where there's been a "joining the dots" rather than accurately
depicting the route). I've got some other original maps of the Northern
as it crosses the Thames. Others have spoken of the Piccadilly near
South Ken, and the Jubilee north of Baker St being formerly Bakerloo
makes the right-angle crossing shown rather implausible. I don't see a
huge bend at Bank-Central, which one observes when on the train. And so
on. Lots of little things to put together, each of which will improve
one small part.

I see. I suppose i'll just have to keep reading and learning.

Perhaps if someone comes along and offers me a sabbatical (do grad
students get sabbaticals?), i'll take a year off to collate and digitise
every scrap of information available, then put together a definitive map.
Or persuade some geography student that it would make a good dissertation
project!

tom

--
.... to build a space elevator, that's got to be hundreds of thousands of
pounds ... -- Mike Froggatt

In message ,
Tom Anderson writes

Perhaps if someone comes along and offers me a sabbatical (do grad
students get sabbaticals?), i'll take a year off to collate and digitise
every scrap of information available, then put together a definitive map.
Or persuade some geography student that it would make a good dissertation
project!

When the tube system is shown on a geometric map it is almost always
done in a way to assist users of the map to find routes. To do this it
is inevitable that a lot of fine detail has to be compromised in order
to maintain clarity.

--
Paul Terry

You'd probably find that TfL's museum at Covent Garden has something in
their library of maps but you'd need some form of authorisation to look I
think.

J.G
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Tom
Anderson writes

Perhaps if someone comes along and offers me a sabbatical (do grad
students get sabbaticals?), i'll take a year off to collate and digitise
every scrap of information available, then put together a definitive map.
Or persuade some geography student that it would make a good dissertation
project!

When the tube system is shown on a geometric map it is almost always done
in a way to assist users of the map to find routes. To do this it is
inevitable that a lot of fine detail has to be compromised in order to
maintain clarity.

--
Paul Terry