On 8 Nov 2004 08:49:56 -0800, (Buttoneer) wrote:

I'm getting really quite fed up with the different crazy bus lane
rules all over even small parts of London.

What's the problem with making them all 24/7? Seriously. When traffic is
heavy, the buses get a lane to themselves, as it should be. When traffic is
light, there's no need for cars to use the extra lane anyway. And, of course,
it ends the confusion of when it is or is not a bus lane.

"Marc Brett" wrote in message
...
On 8 Nov 2004 08:49:56 -0800, (Buttoneer) wrote:

I'm getting really quite fed up with the different crazy bus lane
rules all over even small parts of London.

What's the problem with making them all 24/7? Seriously. When traffic is
heavy, the buses get a lane to themselves, as it should be. When traffic
is
light, there's no need for cars to use the extra lane anyway. And, of
course,
it ends the confusion of when it is or is not a bus lane.

This would not work anywhere you have a business - you can ban loading for
part of the day but not all of it. Otherwise you'll drive them out of
business. And you can't allow loading all the time - otherwise there is no
point having a bus lane in the first place. Different rules are needed to
suit each location bit I agree clearer signagge is often needed. I don't
think coloured surfacing would be a good method of indicating times - there
are too many variations. Clear bus-lane signs at the start of the lane, and
repeated at intervals is the answer - but so many lanes just have a sign at
the beginning of the lane and not enough repeaters.

Incidentally, if there are no days or hours shown at the start of a bus lane
this means it is 'at any time'. However, I think putting 'at any time' on
the sign is clearer!

The same is NOT true for permit-parking signs. The hours of operation may
be (and all too often are) omitted from the plates in CPZ parking bays and
only have to be shown on the boundary signs at the entry points to the CPZ.
I think the operational hours should be shown on all plates in all parking
bays - as they are on all the schemes I have designed.

"umpston" wrote in
:

This would not work anywhere you have a business - you can ban loading
for part of the day but not all of it. Otherwise you'll drive them
out of business. And you can't allow loading all the time - otherwise
there is no point having a bus lane in the first place.

How about making the bus lane 24 by 7 for flowing traffic, but allow
loading for specified times of the day.

"Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)" wrote in
message ...
"umpston" wrote in
:

This would not work anywhere you have a business - you can ban loading
for part of the day but not all of it. Otherwise you'll drive them
out of business. And you can't allow loading all the time - otherwise
there is no point having a bus lane in the first place.

How about making the bus lane 24 by 7 for flowing traffic, but allow
loading for specified times of the day.

Once you allow loading you no longer have 'flowing traffic' in the lane!
However, many bus lanes already do exactly what you describe - for example
bus lanes are often 7am-10am and 4pm-7pm. Between 10am and 4pm the bus lane
restrictions don't apply - but there may well be yellow lines which allow
loading but not parking at these times. In other places parking may well be
allowed. Always look at the parking/loading signs as well as the bus-lane
ones. If they are not clear - complain, otherwise they never will be.

"Marc Brett" wrote in message
...
On 8 Nov 2004 08:49:56 -0800, (Buttoneer) wrote:

I'm getting really quite fed up with the different crazy
bus lane rules all over even small parts of London.

What's the problem with making them all 24/7?

The problem is that one is not currently allowed to use bus lanes for
undertaking a car waiting to turn right.

The other problem is that I can get around very quickly because I use bus
lanes to undertake all the clowns who avoid them 24/7, and I couldn't do
that if they were operational 24/7.

What's the problem with people just staying out of bus lanes unless they've
read the sign and checked the hours? Why do you see a 24/7 ban as an
improvement, when no-one materially benefits from that? Why don't you just
learn how to read instead of trying to punish people who can read?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:16:41 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:

"Marc Brett" wrote in message
.. .
On 8 Nov 2004 08:49:56 -0800, (Buttoneer) wrote:

I'm getting really quite fed up with the different crazy
bus lane rules all over even small parts of London.

What's the problem with making them all 24/7?

The problem is that one is not currently allowed to use bus lanes for
undertaking a car waiting to turn right.

What about using them when a carriageway is blocked by police horse
boxes? Shepherd's Bush Road for example, when they take over the
northbound side for boxes, traffic displaced to the middle (s/b) lane,
s/b traffic uses bus lane. And much use of bus lane to pass the rat
runners turning right. (The bus lane is policed occasionally by plod
hiding behind a bus shelter; lots of drivers crane necks to check if
the coast is clear and use the last 1/2 mi stretch if so).

What's the problem with people just staying out of bus lanes unless they've
read the sign and checked the hours?
TBH it's one more thing to decode: the signs are not standardised. As
others have said, some are 24h, some are Mon-Sun, some are At All
Times, some are At Any Time (when's that?) and the mix of 7-10 4-7
means distractions. California has no problem with controlled green
ticks and red Xs to control use of HOV lanes. London has missed a
trick here IMHO. If the road is heavily laden, keep the bus lane
reserved for longer with a red X (or indeed if emergency access is
needed); same with the congestion zone: illuminate the red C in
control times.

--
New anti-spam address cmylod at despammed dot com

Colum Mylod wrote in message . ..
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 00:16:41 -0000, "John Rowland"
wrote:

"Marc Brett" wrote in message
.. .
On 8 Nov 2004 08:49:56 -0800, (Buttoneer) wrote:

I'm getting really quite fed up with the different crazy
bus lane rules all over even small parts of London.

What's the problem with making them all 24/7?

The problem is that one is not currently allowed to use bus lanes for
undertaking a car waiting to turn right.

What about using them when a carriageway is blocked by police horse
boxes? Shepherd's Bush Road for example, when they take over the
northbound side for boxes, traffic displaced to the middle (s/b) lane,
s/b traffic uses bus lane. And much use of bus lane to pass the rat
runners turning right. (The bus lane is policed occasionally by plod
hiding behind a bus shelter; lots of drivers crane necks to check if
the coast is clear and use the last 1/2 mi stretch if so).

What's the problem with people just staying out of bus lanes unless they've
read the sign and checked the hours?
TBH it's one more thing to decode: the signs are not standardised. As
others have said, some are 24h, some are Mon-Sun, some are At All
Times, some are At Any Time (when's that?) and the mix of 7-10 4-7
means distractions. California has no problem with controlled green
ticks and red Xs to control use of HOV lanes. London has missed a
trick here IMHO. If the road is heavily laden, keep the bus lane
reserved for longer with a red X (or indeed if emergency access is
needed); same with the congestion zone: illuminate the red C in
control times.

That's exactly it.

If you're on a road with a part time bus lane and are familiar with
the hours of operation it's easy to just pop into that lane and buzz
up the inside lane. What it doesn't help with is the occasional (and
you do get them) vigilante driver who thinks it is his or her duty to
try and block both lanes simply to prevent you from doing something
'cheeky' and because they have not read the sign properly. Happened
to me more than once. And no, I don't do it when the traffic is
moving.

Some of these signs are really very hard to decipher and/or take in
when you go past them on the entry to the controlled area.

And then you get those people who are in the right hand lane (because
they've not read the sign) and who suddenly decide they need to turn
left in front of you with little warning. They should (and could)
have been in the left lane and out of harms way.

Clear signage, whatever the rules, has got to be the way forward.
Personally, I'd prefer to see the hours standardised so everyone can
tell at any a glance what the rules are for the road at any one time.

Marc Brett wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 8 Nov 2004:

On 8 Nov 2004 08:49:56 -0800, (Buttoneer) wrote:

I'm getting really quite fed up with the different crazy bus lane
rules all over even small parts of London.

What's the problem with making them all 24/7? Seriously. When traffic is
heavy, the buses get a lane to themselves, as it should be. When traffic is
light, there's no need for cars to use the extra lane anyway. And, of course,
it ends the confusion of when it is or is not a bus lane.

And when it is not in use as a bus lane there's usually cars parked all
over it so it's unusable by moving traffic anyway.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:47:17, Marc Brett wrote:

On 8 Nov 2004 08:49:56 -0800, (Buttoneer) wrote:

I'm getting really quite fed up with the different crazy bus lane
rules all over even small parts of London.

What's the problem with making them all 24/7? Seriously. When traffic is
heavy, the buses get a lane to themselves, as it should be. When traffic is
light, there's no need for cars to use the extra lane anyway. And, of course,
it ends the confusion of when it is or is not a bus lane.

I'd go with that - as long as motor-cycles can use bus lanes at all
times...

(A motor-bike has *never* been known to hold up a bus, at least that's
what Google leads me to believe.)

--
Jim Crowther "It's MY computer" (tm SMG)

Always learning.

Jim Crowther wrote in message ...
On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:47:17, Marc Brett wrote:

On 8 Nov 2004 08:49:56 -0800, (Buttoneer) wrote:

I'm getting really quite fed up with the different crazy bus lane
rules all over even small parts of London.

What's the problem with making them all 24/7? Seriously. When traffic is
heavy, the buses get a lane to themselves, as it should be. When traffic is
light, there's no need for cars to use the extra lane anyway. And, of course,
it ends the confusion of when it is or is not a bus lane.

I'd go with that - as long as motor-cycles can use bus lanes at all
times...

(A motor-bike has *never* been known to hold up a bus, at least that's
what Google leads me to believe.)

Motor-bikes using bus-lanes are more likely to be involved in
accidents because they go faster than the traffic in the outside lane
and may not be obvious to other drivers and pedestrians until it is
too late (not always the rider's fault - but the risk is there just
the same). The buses also go faster but are much bigger and easier to
see.

And would you agree with 24hr bus lanes if you owned a small business
along a bus route? Part-time bus lanes may not be ideal, but are a
necessary compromise, unless you only want to shop at supermarkets.