The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston
station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind
read "Short journey; ask driver!"

We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in
question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which
is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses
don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried -
I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to
failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination
blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have
them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I
had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded......
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston
station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind
read "Short journey; ask driver!"

We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in
question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which
is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses
don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried -
I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to
failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination
blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have
them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I
had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded......
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos

Guess what the rest of the country appear to be able to cope with electronic
destination displays, as always TfL just seem to want to be different!
The original electronic displays were prone to fading with time but the
modern ones appear very bright and have scrolling facilities to how via
points etc.

Paul

In message , Paul & Meloney Dredge
writes
Guess what the rest of the country appear to be able to cope with
electronic destination displays, as always TfL just seem to want to be
different! The original electronic displays were prone to fading with
time but the modern ones appear very bright and have scrolling
facilities to how via points etc.
Please have a word with "Stagecoach" who still (in my area) have
displays which are garbage.
--
Clive.

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston
station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind
read "Short journey; ask driver!"

We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in
question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which
is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses
don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried -
I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to
failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination
blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have
them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I
had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded......

I think electronic destination displays on buses are fairly common. Around
here (Oxfordshire) the Oxford Park-and-Ride buses and the buses from Didcot,
Abingdon etc use them. They are mainly matrix displays (a matrix of LEDs)
rather then the LCD type that you tend to find on the front of trains and
also inside the carriages (eg over the inter-carriage doors).

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:14:40 +0000, Mrs Redboots
wrote:

why don't they have
them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I
had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded......

Agreed! I've also come across buses where the numbers on the front, back, and
side blinds didn't agree, and the driver didn't think it was a particular
problem! At least with electronic blinds they'd all be wrong...

As for inside displays, since GPS/AVL is to be fitted to buses, it'd be
relatively easy to add a bunch of features inside:

For passengers, a display with:
- Bus number & destination.
- Clock with exact time
- Next stop display/voice announcement.
- Messages from TfL / bus company
- Messages from advertisers, or other entertainment

For the driver:
- Clock with exact time
- Speed up/Slow down directives to stick to the schedule
or to maintain separation with other buses on same route.
- Messages from dispatcher
- A repeater for the number displayed on the outside :-)

Marc Brett wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 10 Nov 2004:

As for inside displays, since GPS/AVL is to be fitted to buses, it'd be
relatively easy to add a bunch of features inside:

For passengers, a display with:
- Bus number & destination.
- Clock with exact time
- Next stop display/voice announcement.
- Messages from TfL / bus company
- Messages from advertisers, or other entertainment

I have seen buses with accurate clocks in them, and ones with
advertising screens on the upper deck (usually used to show what the
CCTV is seeing, but occasionally used for advertisers). As for
messages, the only ones the buses seem capable of saying is "Bus
stopping at next bus stop; please stand well clear of doors", as though
we were all pillocks!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos

In the message ...
"Mrs Redboots" wrote:

Marc Brett wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 10 Nov 2004:

As for inside displays, since GPS/AVL is to be fitted to buses, it'd be
relatively easy to add a bunch of features inside:

For passengers, a display with:
- Bus number & destination.
- Clock with exact time
- Next stop display/voice announcement.
- Messages from TfL / bus company
- Messages from advertisers, or other entertainment

I have seen buses with accurate clocks in them, and ones with
advertising screens on the upper deck (usually used to show what the
CCTV is seeing, but occasionally used for advertisers). As for
messages, the only ones the buses seem capable of saying is "Bus
stopping at next bus stop; please stand well clear of doors", as though
we were all pillocks!

Indeed, I recently travelled on (London) route 390 in a bus with such a
screen in the centre of the upper-deck windscreen, and was similarly
disappointed to see that none of the above-mentioned information (apart from
generic TfL messages and advertising) was displayed. But AFAIK this is par
for the course in today's narrowly commercially-oriented world; even the
idea that the advertising would be more effective if it alternated with
information of real value to passengers (the more specific the better, eg
real-time details of alterations to the services...) has obviously not
crossed the minds of those concerned.

BTW here in Brussels, buses with electronic destination blinds automatically
display the number of minutes before the scheduled departure (bilingually,
of course) while waiting at termini.

Regards,

- Alan (in Brussels)

"Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message
...
In the message ...

Indeed, I recently travelled on (London) route 390 in a bus with such a
screen in the centre of the upper-deck windscreen, and was similarly
disappointed to see that none of the above-mentioned information (apart
from
generic TfL messages and advertising) was displayed. But AFAIK this is par
for the course in today's narrowly commercially-oriented world; even the
idea that the advertising would be more effective if it alternated with
information of real value to passengers (the more specific the better, eg
real-time details of alterations to the services...) has obviously not
crossed the minds of those concerned.

To do so would require a realtime link to pick up this information whereas
the present system can be updated at depots. I'm sure your idea has crossed
the minds of those concerned but perhaps their investigations showed that
the present control-to-bus link was not up to the job and upgrading it just
for this not cost effective.

Dave

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:03:24 -0000, "Dave Liney"
wrote:


"Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message
...
In the message ...

Indeed, I recently travelled on (London) route 390 in a bus with such a
screen in the centre of the upper-deck windscreen, and was similarly
disappointed to see that none of the above-mentioned information (apart
from
generic TfL messages and advertising) was displayed. But AFAIK this is par
for the course in today's narrowly commercially-oriented world; even the
idea that the advertising would be more effective if it alternated with
information of real value to passengers (the more specific the better, eg
real-time details of alterations to the services...) has obviously not
crossed the minds of those concerned.

To do so would require a realtime link to pick up this information whereas
the present system can be updated at depots. I'm sure your idea has crossed
the minds of those concerned but perhaps their investigations showed that
the present control-to-bus link was not up to the job and upgrading it just
for this not cost effective.

Dave


I friend of mine writes on this subject:

------------------------------------------------------------
The problem in the UK has been that whilst it is all theoretically
possible, the environment on a bus going over the UK's somewhat
indifferently maintained roads has proved much more challenging to the
equipment than when it was being tested sitting on a desk or bench
top. There have therefore been a very large number of reliability
problems resulting in partial or complete failures of the systems
(hence different displays externally on front and sides).

Generally for external displays, the electrically operated roller
blind (as fitted to Croydon Tramlink) has proved to be more cost
effective and more reliable. You can get into quite high costs with
LED's particularly if you want true descenders on the lower case
(requires more lines of LED's for effectively the same size of
lettering). From a DDA perspective (for poorly sighted people of whom
there are many more than wheelchair bound) , I personally think blinds
are much easier to read than LED's on a moving vehicle. Internally I
think that most companies have now managed to get their acts together
and the equipment is now robust enough to be reliable (I saw some very
good location based internal displays on buses in the Harrogate area,
so they do exist in the UK).

One thing that you have to get right and often separates the skilled
'sheep' from the cheapo 'goats' is the issue of buses being diverted
or not completing whole routes. This is of course a matter of
compiling the logical algorithms thoroughly enough to allow for all
likely possibilities. There are unfortunately companies (often the
well known 'big boys') who seem to either lack the skills or
motivation or both to achieve this and hence the problems!
----------------------------------

David Bradley

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
The other day, I was in a car being driven northbound past Euston
station, and happened to catch sight of a bus whose destination blind
read "Short journey; ask driver!"

We pondered this for awhile and assumed it would mean that the bus in
question was stopping somewhere its destination blind didn't say, which
is fair enough. But this sparked a discussion as to why modern buses
don't have electronic destination blinds. I know the system was tried -
I used to see the odd 35 with them - but presumably it was too prone to
failure? On the other hand, if they can have electronic destination
blinds on trains (which they not only can, but do), why don't they have
them on buses? Inside the bus, too, would be helpful - how often have I
had to ask the driver what number bus I've actually boarded......
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos



A number of the more modern buses in West Yorkshire have them. Mostly those
operated by First Bus I think.


Andrew