On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:19:59 +0000 someone who may be Clive Coleman
wrote this:-

econdly, the rear power car was NOT under the full power.
The train's 'black box recorder' that the power notch was at zero and
the brake handle was in 'emergency'. It was simply the inertia of the
rear power car (which had already derailed) that kept it moving.

Do you KNOW that?

The Railway Inspectorate say so in their interim report.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

David Hansen wrote:

Clive Coleman wrote:

secondly, the rear power car was NOT under the full power.
The train's 'black box recorder' that the power notch was at zero and
the brake handle was in 'emergency'. It was simply the inertia of the
rear power car (which had already derailed) that kept it moving.

Do you KNOW that?

The Railway Inspectorate say so in their interim report.

Unless you are reading a different report than is available on the RI
web site:

- There is no mention of the power setting in the interim report.
- There is no mention of the type of brake application, nor the position
of the brake handle in the interim report, only that the brakes were
applied 2 to 3 sections prior to impact. One can assume they were
applied in emergency, but the report makes no statement on the subject,
and it would be an assumption on the part of the reader.
- There is no mention in the report of where the rear power car first
derailed, (meaning the one at the London end of train) only that it was
derailed where it came to rest.

How do people get so many facts wrong, when the report is readily
available?

Clive Coleman wrote:
In message , dwb
writes
econdly, the rear power car was NOT under the full power.
The train's 'black box recorder' that the power notch was at zero
and the brake handle was in 'emergency'. It was simply the inertia
of the rear power car (which had already derailed) that kept it
moving.
Do you KNOW that?

Um... I didn't write that.

ANyway, as David says, it's in the HSE report so I would guess it might be
true.

"Clive Coleman" wrote in message
...
In message , dwb
writes
econdly, the rear power car was NOT under the full power.
The train's 'black box recorder' that the power notch was at zero and
the brake handle was in 'emergency'. It was simply the inertia of the
rear power car (which had already derailed) that kept it moving.
Do you KNOW that?

Yes. To quote Network Rail's report:

"1C92 struck the car at 18:05/32. OTMR indicates that 1C92's brakes were
applied two to three seconds before the collision. Leading wheelset of 1C92
derailed on the crossing on impact with the stationary car."

--
*** http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/ ***
Rich Mackin (rich-at-richmackin-co-uk)
MSN: richmackin-at-hotmail-dot-com

S.Byers wrote:
The extent of the damage in the Berkshire crash was caused by two
major factors apart from the speed of the train and the limited view
of the hero driver.

These we

1/ the rear power car, still under full power, caused much of the
crumpling and jack knifing, and


An emergency brake application causes the power to be cut. Additionally it
is a natural reaction by an experinced driver to cut power as he applies the
brakes. On an HST this is done by pushing both the power and brake handles
forward to their fullest extent.

yes i was just goin to say SHUT THE F UP mister.

In message ,
hector writes
yes i was just goin to say SHUT THE F UP mister.


What an intelligent reply, have you ever been a trainman? I thought
not.
--
Clive.

On 10 Nov 2004 09:09:38 -0800 someone who may be
(S.Byers) wrote this:-

1/ the rear power car, still under full power, caused much of the
crumpling and jack knifing, and

AFAIK it was not under full power.

Even if it was under full power the extra force that provided was
not enough to cause the damage. If it was then HSTs would be damaged
every time only the rear power car is working, which happens from
time to time. The forces the power cars produce are minor compared
to the forces involved in a crash.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

"David Hansen" wrote in message
news
Even if it was under full power the extra force that provided was
not enough to cause the damage. If it was then HSTs would be damaged
every time only the rear power car is working, which happens from
time to time. The forces the power cars produce are minor compared
to the forces involved in a crash.

Quite. The maximum tractive effort is about 8 tons, which I guess (I don't
have a power curve) would be only about a quarter of that at 100 mph.
Compared to the momentum of its 70-ton weight at 100 mph, plus that of the
other carriages at the rear, the effect of any power it could produce is
negligible.

Roger

Roger H. Bennett wrote:
"David Hansen" wrote in message
news
Even if it was under full power the extra force that provided was
not enough to cause the damage. If it was then HSTs would be damaged
every time only the rear power car is working, which happens from
time to time. The forces the power cars produce are minor compared
to the forces involved in a crash.

Quite. The maximum tractive effort is about 8 tons, which I guess (I
don't have a power curve) would be only about a quarter of that at
100 mph. Compared to the momentum of its 70-ton weight at 100 mph,
plus that of the other carriages at the rear, the effect of any power
it could produce is negligible.

Roger

Power was cut, full emergency brake was in and the power car at the rear
provided much additional braking effort to the rear five coaches, which
did not pile up onto the front three. The driver did everything right,
call it self preservation, instinct, skill whatever, it is a testament
to his last act and the construction of the train that so many survived.