In message , TheOneKEA
writes

Paul Terry wrote in message
...

Customers will inevitably re-evaluate Heathrow, which is usually
cheaper and in the future may prove quicker.

Maybe customers in SWT-land.

Those are the ones we are discussing, yes.

But what about customers on the Central
Line? Or customers living in Beckton? Or folks on the District?

They are likely to have to suffer the appalling interchange planned for
Stratford. The last I heard, Union Railways are even resisting putting
in a travelator (it is rumoured they want to force people to walk past a
quarter of mile of shops to get to the International station).

IMO, whatever custom Eurostar *might* lose by closing Waterloo and
forcing folks to go to St. Pancras and Stratford will undoubtedly be
reversed by the much larger numbers of people who will be able to get
to Stratford far more easily (and cheaply!) than Waterloo.

But will such people want or need to use Eurostar?

And why should a company merely want to replace one cohort of customers
with another? Most would use an opportunity such as this to *increase*
their customer base by *adding* all those new fares from Stratford, not
by using them to replace lost Waterloo customers.

As I've already stated, I feel that whatever traffic Eurostar might
lose at Waterloo, it will regain in spades at Stratford.

To a large extent it will depend on whether those needing to go to
Brussels and Paris for business meetings, or choosing to go there on
leisure breaks, live mainly in SW London or in Beckton etc. I suspect it
is mostly the former, and Eurostar are therefore going to be forced to
start building a new customer base from scratch instead of building on
their existing market.

--
Paul Terry

TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 16 Nov 2004:

Maybe customers in SWT-land. But what about customers on the Central
Line? Or customers living in Beckton? Or folks on the District?

IMO, whatever custom Eurostar *might* lose by closing Waterloo and
forcing folks to go to St. Pancras and Stratford will undoubtedly be
reversed by the much larger numbers of people who will be able to get
to Stratford far more easily (and cheaply!) than Waterloo.

But we don't want not to have Stratford - we want to have Waterloo *as
well*!!!! The right to choose, and all that jazz....

Another poster commented about day-trip traffic - people living in the
North - my daughter, in York, for instance, or a friend in Hull - simply
can't do day-trips anyway, wherever the Eurostar leaves from. They do
3-days to Amsterdam by ferry, not 24 hours in Paris or Brussels! And I
can't see that changing.

As I've already stated, I feel that whatever traffic Eurostar might
lose at Waterloo, it will regain in spades at Stratford. *Especially*
if the Stratford International is opened in a timely fashion.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha..... You really reckon it will be? I've got a
bridge in Brooklyn....
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos

TheOneKEA wrote:
Paul Terry wrote in message ...

In message , Alex
Terrell writes


The Daily Telegraph reports that Eurostar will quit Waterloo in 2007.

I think this is a good idea. Even from Waterloo, it would be quicket
to take the tube to St Pancras and then take a fast Eurostar.

There's no direct tube! It ought to be quicker to take the Jubilee
direct from Waterloo to Stratford and pick-up Eurostar there. However,
the interchange at Stratford looks as though it is going to be poor.


Actually, it won't. If the Stratford International DLR link is mooted,
passengers will have level access from the Jubbly terminus to the
former westbound NLL platform, where they can catch the DLR to the
International station.

You are right about the lack of direct tube services; unfortunately,
the obvious choice of changing at Warren Street requires hiking
through the station. Too bad that Crossrail 3 will be opened after the
sun has burnt out...

Waterloo to King's Cross isn't terrible - if it's done via the
cross-platform interchange at Oxford Circus. However, it's not the most
obvious route (which I reckon, from the tube map, looks like via
Leicester Square). Perhaps they should put up really big signs at
Waterloo...

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In article , (Dave Arquati)
wrote:

Waterloo to King's Cross isn't terrible - if it's done via the
cross-platform interchange at Oxford Circus. However, it's not the most
obvious route (which I reckon, from the tube map, looks like via
Leicester Square). Perhaps they should put up really big signs at
Waterloo...

I agree. Years ago they had little lights up to show passengers the best
route.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , Dave Arquati
writes

Waterloo to King's Cross isn't terrible - if it's done via the
cross-platform interchange at Oxford Circus.

No, but the point is that there will now be three interchanges each way
where there is now only one.

Six interchanges on a return trip to the continent where there are now
only two.

I fear this will be a big disincentive to use Eurostar.

However, it's not the most obvious route (which I reckon, from the tube
map, looks like via Leicester Square). Perhaps they should put up
really big signs at Waterloo...

For SWT services that stop at Vauxhall, the Victoria line to King's
Cross will be a better bet - but the interchange at Vauxhall, with
luggage, in the rush hour, is an abomination.

--
Paul Terry

In message , at 07:08:03 on Tue, 16 Nov
2004, Paul Terry remarked:
For SWT services that stop at Vauxhall, the Victoria line to King's
Cross will be a better bet - but the interchange at Vauxhall, with
luggage, in the rush hour, is an abomination.

The interchange at KX isn't a picnic either. Although I hope they'll do
something about all the stairs as part of the St Pancras upgrade.
--
Roland Perry

Problem with Vauxhall is the stairs...

And not all trains stop at Vauxhall.... plus the gap.
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
news
In message , Dave Arquati
writes

Waterloo to King's Cross isn't terrible - if it's done via the
cross-platform interchange at Oxford Circus.

No, but the point is that there will now be three interchanges each way
where there is now only one.

Six interchanges on a return trip to the continent where there are now
only two.

I fear this will be a big disincentive to use Eurostar.

However, it's not the most obvious route (which I reckon, from the tube
map, looks like via Leicester Square). Perhaps they should put up
really big signs at Waterloo...

For SWT services that stop at Vauxhall, the Victoria line to King's
Cross will be a better bet - but the interchange at Vauxhall, with
luggage, in the rush hour, is an abomination.

--
Paul Terry

For SWT services that stop at Vauxhall, the Victoria line to King's
Cross will be a better bet - but the interchange at Vauxhall, with
luggage, in the rush hour, is an abomination.

Vauxhall's fine. If you want a crappy interchange, try getting from
the Northern Line to the LB&SC side of London Bridge.

Dave Arquati wrote in message ...
TheOneKEA wrote:
Paul Terry wrote in message ...

In message , Alex
Terrell writes


The Daily Telegraph reports that Eurostar will quit Waterloo in 2007.

I think this is a good idea. Even from Waterloo, it would be quicket
to take the tube to St Pancras and then take a fast Eurostar.

There's no direct tube! It ought to be quicker to take the Jubilee
direct from Waterloo to Stratford and pick-up Eurostar there. However,
the interchange at Stratford looks as though it is going to be poor.


Actually, it won't. If the Stratford International DLR link is mooted,
passengers will have level access from the Jubbly terminus to the
former westbound NLL platform, where they can catch the DLR to the
International station.

You are right about the lack of direct tube services; unfortunately,
the obvious choice of changing at Warren Street requires hiking
through the station. Too bad that Crossrail 3 will be opened after the
sun has burnt out...

Waterloo to King's Cross isn't terrible - if it's done via the
cross-platform interchange at Oxford Circus. However, it's not the most
obvious route (which I reckon, from the tube map, looks like via
Leicester Square). Perhaps they should put up really big signs at
Waterloo...

There is of course Waterloo East to Northfleet (50 min), which could
perhaps be Waterloo to Ebsfleet. However, if I remember from the
plans, the North Kent line trains will still use Northfleet, which is
several hundred metres from Ebbsfleet. When the Crossrail terminus is
built ....

"Alex Terrell" wrote in message
om...

There is of course Waterloo East to Northfleet (50 min), which could
perhaps be Waterloo to Ebsfleet. However, if I remember from the
plans, the North Kent line trains will still use Northfleet, which is
several hundred metres from Ebbsfleet. When the Crossrail terminus is
built ....

.....it will be adjacent to Northfleet station, not Ebbsfleet International.
Peter