TheOneKEA wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 16 Nov 2004:

Maybe customers in SWT-land. But what about customers on the Central
Line? Or customers living in Beckton? Or folks on the District?

IMO, whatever custom Eurostar *might* lose by closing Waterloo and
forcing folks to go to St. Pancras and Stratford will undoubtedly be
reversed by the much larger numbers of people who will be able to get
to Stratford far more easily (and cheaply!) than Waterloo.

But we don't want not to have Stratford - we want to have Waterloo *as
well*!!!! The right to choose, and all that jazz....

Another poster commented about day-trip traffic - people living in the
North - my daughter, in York, for instance, or a friend in Hull - simply
can't do day-trips anyway, wherever the Eurostar leaves from. They do
3-days to Amsterdam by ferry, not 24 hours in Paris or Brussels! And I
can't see that changing.

As I've already stated, I feel that whatever traffic Eurostar might
lose at Waterloo, it will regain in spades at Stratford. *Especially*
if the Stratford International is opened in a timely fashion.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha..... You really reckon it will be? I've got a
bridge in Brooklyn....
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 6 November 2004 with new photos

In article , M.Whitson
writes
Paris/Brussels bound passengers from more than 40 miles
north of London will find it far more convenient and less time consuming to
use their regional airport - Stanstead, Manchester, Liverpool Newcastle etc.

Not so: from Cambridge/Peterborough it is more convenient - even if
slightly slower - to use Eurostar than to fly. And that's with the
present arrangements; the move to St.Pancras will probably save me an
hour.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

In article ,
Clive D. W. Feather wrote:
Not so: from Cambridge/Peterborough it is more convenient - even if
slightly slower - to use Eurostar than to fly. And that's with the
present arrangements; the move to St.Pancras will probably save me an
hour.

Don't be silly Clive! People from outside the south east have no interest in
travelling anywhere by anything other than horse and cart, and couldn't
possibly need an interconnection with Eurostar!

Or so I have learnt from this newsgroup over the past few days...

Dave
--
Email: MSN Messenger:

In message , at 10:42:24 on Tue, 16
Nov 2004, Clive D. W. Feather remarked:
In article , M.Whitson
writes
Paris/Brussels bound passengers from more than 40 miles
north of London will find it far more convenient and less time consuming to
use their regional airport - Stanstead, Manchester, Liverpool Newcastle etc.

Not so: from Cambridge/Peterborough it is more convenient - even if
slightly slower - to use Eurostar than to fly.

Thanks to CT's pathetic service to Stansted.

And that's with the present arrangements; the move to St.Pancras will
probably save me an hour.

I agree, E* every time.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 09:33:28 on Tue, 16 Nov
2004, Paul Terry remarked:
Customers will inevitably re-evaluate Heathrow, which is usually
cheaper and in the future may prove quicker.

Maybe customers in SWT-land.

Those are the ones we are discussing, yes.

I used to live in SWT-land (near Surbiton). I was *extremely* surprised
to find that there's no SWT train running in the early morning that
would have connected me with the first E* from Waterloo - necessary if
you want to make a morning meeting on the Continent. Presumably that
first train is entirely for people within a taxi ride of Waterloo
(including those forced to overnight in a hotel).

But what about customers on the Central
Line? Or customers living in Beckton? Or folks on the District?

They are likely to have to suffer the appalling interchange planned for
Stratford. The last I heard, Union Railways are even resisting putting
in a travelator (it is rumoured they want to force people to walk past
a quarter of mile of shops to get to the International station).

Ah, just like all the airports, then?

To a large extent it will depend on whether those needing to go to
Brussels and Paris for business meetings, or choosing to go there on
leisure breaks, live mainly in SW London or in Beckton etc. I suspect
it is mostly the former, and Eurostar are therefore going to be forced
to start building a new customer base from scratch instead of building
on their existing market.

You need to factor in several other variables. For example, as a result
of the impossibility of catching the first E* in the morning from
anywhere outside central London, the business traveller with a morning
meeting has to be funded well enough to either overnight in London, or
Paris/Brussels.

--
Roland Perry

In message , Roland
Perry writes

I used to live in SWT-land (near Surbiton). I was *extremely* surprised
to find that there's no SWT train running in the early morning that
would have connected me with the first E* from Waterloo

Then think how much worse it is going to be to get from Surbiton to St
Pancras in time for a 05:30 departure!

- necessary if you want to make a morning meeting on the Continent.

Depends - the 06:26 departure arrive in Brussels at 10.01. But I don't
know many people who are so keen on their jobs that they would want to
get up that early just for a meeting.

Presumably that first train is entirely for people within a taxi ride
of Waterloo (including those forced to overnight in a hotel).

Or who have relatives who can drop them off, or who know how to use a
night bus, or who are travelling in a party for which a minibus or
coach, has been laid on, or who are Belgian or French and have been
staying in a nearby hotel ...

But I have to say that the only time I ever travelled on that early
service, I was very lonely. It certainly wasn't very popular a few years
back.

You need to factor in several other variables. For example, as a result
of the impossibility of catching the first E* in the morning from
anywhere outside central London, the business traveller with a morning
meeting has to be funded well enough to either overnight in London, or
Paris/Brussels.

I should have thought that was pretty normal - the company for which I
sometimes do some work (and which has charitable status) will always pay
for a hotel if there is a morning start and the travelling time is much
more than about an hour.

--
Paul Terry

It would not be difficult to use these platforms for Windsor Line trains,
making it much less likely for any trains to have to queue up outside
Waterloo waiting for platforms. But that wonn't make use of the platform
length - it would probably be too expensive to extend any Windsor line
station to take 12x20m trains, let alone 16- or 20-car.

Not to mention the fact that they still can't even run a full complement
of 8 car trains of the new stocks on the 3rd rail system because of power
supply issues.


Leaving aside the power supply issues, which will have to be resolved in any
event, why cannot 12-car or 16-car trains be run on the Windsor lines. What
law is there that EVERY car has to be accessible to each platform?

Why couldn't for example, a Reading train leaving Waterloo specify that only
the doors of the first 8 carriages will open at certain stations and the rear 8
carriages at the others?

This could not have happened with slam-door trains, but with controlled doors,
why can this not happen?

Those making the whole joruney could sit anywhere, and others would be
directed by signs to the correct part of the train for their station.

Marc.

"Alex Terrell" wrote in message
om...

There is of course Waterloo East to Northfleet (50 min), which could
perhaps be Waterloo to Ebsfleet. However, if I remember from the
plans, the North Kent line trains will still use Northfleet, which is
several hundred metres from Ebbsfleet. When the Crossrail terminus is
built ....

.....it will be adjacent to Northfleet station, not Ebbsfleet International.
Peter

In message , at 12:56:09 on Tue, 16 Nov
2004, Paul Terry remarked:

I used to live in SWT-land (near Surbiton). I was *extremely*
surprised to find that there's no SWT train running in the early
morning that would have connected me with the first E* from Waterloo

Then think how much worse it is going to be to get from Surbiton to St
Pancras in time for a 05:30 departure!

If there are no National Rail trains it's a moot point.

- necessary if you want to make a morning meeting on the Continent.

Depends - the 06:26 departure arrive in Brussels at 10.01. But I don't
know many people who are so keen on their jobs that they would want to
get up that early just for a meeting.

It's not just being keen on the job. I worked for a not-for-profit
organisation where funds were very strictly limited. An overnight stay
in Brussels was a significant expanse, and there were morning meetings
that I needed to be at.

the company for which I sometimes do some work (and which has
charitable status) will always pay for a hotel if there is a morning
start and the travelling time is much more than about an hour.

Mine had a fixed annual budget for such things, and no amount of
"extenuating circumstances" would produce any more money :-(
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 13:15:07
on Tue, 16 Nov 2004, Mait001 remarked:
Leaving aside the power supply issues, which will have to be resolved in any
event, why cannot 12-car or 16-car trains be run on the Windsor lines. What
law is there that EVERY car has to be accessible to each platform?

Why couldn't for example, a Reading train leaving Waterloo specify that only
the doors of the first 8 carriages will open at certain stations and the rear 8
carriages at the others?

This could not have happened with slam-door trains, but with controlled doors,
why can this not happen?

It seems that the trains have been incompetently specified or designed,
and not all of them will allow this feature.
--
Roland Perry