Dave Liney wrote:
"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

In message , Dave Liney
writes

"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...

In message , James
writes


Vauxhall's fine.

ROFL!

No lifts. No escalators. No disabled access/ Long rickety staircase
that's
so over-crowded you have to wait several minutes to use it in the rush
hour.

At least they have put in a second staircase to platforms 7 and 8 now
which
has made things better.

Not for people on all the various services that stop at the other
platforms!


But I don't use them so that's okay. (That is the attitude we're meant to
take isn't it? Otherwise I can't see why so many people are complaining
about the Eurostar terminal moving all of 1.9 miles across a city with a
very good public transport links.)

If you want flat interchanges then go to Waterloo as normal and get a bus to
Euston (at least three routes IIRC) and walk from there. Or you could walk
to Aldwych and get a direct bus from there. It'll take around 30 minutes
either way.

Why on earth isn't there a direct bus between Waterloo and King's
Cross?! I never even noticed that before. These are arguably the two
most important railway termini. This is especially bad when there isn't
even a direct Tube route between the two.

I guess that the roadworks would foul up the reliability of any buses
serving King's Cross. I hope they extend the 59, 68 or 188 once the
construction works are complete.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:

Dave Liney wrote:

If you want flat interchanges then go to Waterloo as normal and get a
bus to Euston (at least three routes IIRC) and walk from there. Or you
could walk to Aldwych and get a direct bus from there. It'll take
around 30 minutes either way.

Why on earth isn't there a direct bus between Waterloo and King's
Cross?! I never even noticed that before. These are arguably the two
most important railway termini.

No, since one of those is Liverpool Street. Just because it mostly serves
Essex and Hackney doesn't mean you can ignore it! Gaaah!

Unless you have some definition of 'important' that is not related to
passenger numbers, in which case you will be the first up against the wall
when the revolution comes.

This is especially bad when there isn't even a direct Tube route between
the two.

You are of course quite right that there should be a direct bus. There
should probably be direct, and perhaps somewhat expressed, bus services
linking every pair of mainline termini that do not have a direct rail
link.

tom

--
Optical illusions are terrorism of the mind.

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:


Dave Liney wrote:


If you want flat interchanges then go to Waterloo as normal and get a
bus to Euston (at least three routes IIRC) and walk from there. Or you
could walk to Aldwych and get a direct bus from there. It'll take
around 30 minutes either way.

Why on earth isn't there a direct bus between Waterloo and King's
Cross?! I never even noticed that before. These are arguably the two
most important railway termini.


No, since one of those is Liverpool Street. Just because it mostly serves
Essex and Hackney doesn't mean you can ignore it! Gaaah!

Unless you have some definition of 'important' that is not related to
passenger numbers, in which case you will be the first up against the wall
when the revolution comes.

Liverpool Street is very important - but when I was referring to King's
Cross I meant (and didn't make at all obvious) the combination of King's
Cross, St Pancras and King's Cross Thameslink. I'm not sure on the
passenger numbers but combined it must be at least a competitor to
Liverpool St.

Whatever the passenger numbers, my rant is justified because Waterloo
has two buses to Liverpool Street :-) (26 and express 705) It also has
buses to Moorgate, Euston, Marylebone (Baker St), Paddington, Victoria,
Charing Cross, London Bridge, Fenchurch Street, Cannon Street and City
Thameslink. The only one left out seems to be Blackfriars - and the
buses to London Bridge and Elephant & Castle should cover that.

This is especially bad when there isn't even a direct Tube route between
the two.


You are of course quite right that there should be a direct bus. There
should probably be direct, and perhaps somewhat expressed, bus services
linking every pair of mainline termini that do not have a direct rail
link.

At least they're part of the way there with the 705 (and the non-express
205).


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , at 01:44:03 on Thu, 25 Nov
2004, Dave Arquati remarked:
Liverpool Street is very important

But won't most Essex folk headed for E* drive to Ebbsfleet through the
Dartford tunnel, rather than trek all the way via London?
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 01:44:03 on Thu, 25 Nov
2004, Dave Arquati remarked:

Liverpool Street is very important

But won't most Essex folk headed for E* drive to Ebbsfleet through the
Dartford tunnel, rather than trek all the way via London?

I wouldn't.

I *would* go via Stratford rather than King's Cross, though!

tom

--
24-Hour Monkey-Vision!

In message ,
at 14:43:10 on Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Tom Anderson
remarked:
But won't most Essex folk headed for E* drive to Ebbsfleet through the
Dartford tunnel, rather than trek all the way via London?

I wouldn't.

I *would* go via Stratford rather than King's Cross, though!

That might suit you, but I doubt it would suit the majority.
--
Roland Perry

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Roland Perry wrote:

In message ,
at 14:43:10 on Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Tom Anderson
remarked:
But won't most Essex folk headed for E* drive to Ebbsfleet through the
Dartford tunnel, rather than trek all the way via London?

I wouldn't.

I *would* go via Stratford rather than King's Cross, though!

That might suit you, but I doubt it would suit the majority.

Why not?

tom

--
All roads lead unto death row; who knows what's after?

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:

Dave Liney wrote:

If you want flat interchanges then go to Waterloo as normal and get a
bus to Euston (at least three routes IIRC) and walk from there. Or
you could walk to Aldwych and get a direct bus from there. It'll take
around 30 minutes either way.

Why on earth isn't there a direct bus between Waterloo and King's
Cross?! I never even noticed that before. These are arguably the two
most important railway termini.

No, since one of those is Liverpool Street. Just because it mostly serves
Essex and Hackney doesn't mean you can ignore it! Gaaah!

Unless you have some definition of 'important' that is not related to
passenger numbers, in which case you will be the first up against the wall
when the revolution comes.

Liverpool Street is very important - but when I was referring to King's
Cross I meant (and didn't make at all obvious) the combination of King's
Cross, St Pancras and King's Cross Thameslink.

That's what i assumed - i don't think of them as separate stations.

I'm not sure on the passenger numbers but combined it must be at least a
competitor to Liverpool St.

I think Greater King's Cross is the second busiest station in London,
after Liverpool Street; i think Waterloo is a lot further down. I can
never find the figures, though!

One thing to consider is the nature of the journeys: i think LS is so busy
because of all the commuter traffic into the city, but handles relatively
little long-haul traffic (there isn't really anywhere to long-haul to,
except Chelmsford, Colchester and Norwich), whereas KX, along with Euston,
is the hub for pretty much all of the trips along the length of the
country. I should imagine Waterloo's in a similar situation to Liverpool
Street, though: lots of inner and outer suburban traffic, not a lot of
long-distance. If you think long-distance traffic is more important in
some way, you could argue that KX is more important than LS, but i don't
think it works for Waterloo.

Whatever the passenger numbers, my rant is justified because Waterloo
has two buses to Liverpool Street :-) (26 and express 705) It also has
buses to Moorgate, Euston, Marylebone (Baker St), Paddington, Victoria,
Charing Cross, London Bridge, Fenchurch Street, Cannon Street and City
Thameslink. The only one left out seems to be Blackfriars - and the
buses to London Bridge and Elephant & Castle should cover that.

While we're ranting [1] - the buses at Blackfriars are a disgrace! The
stops for some of them are about twenty miles up the road! And there's
only one night bus - which is pretty daft, given that trains run there
until pretty late at night. I had to do Wallington to Clapton on a sunday
night once, which is why i'm bitter about this .

tom

[1] By which i obviously mean "While *i'm* ranting"

--
24-Hour Monkey-Vision!

Tom Anderson wrote in message ...
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:

Dave Liney wrote:

If you want flat interchanges then go to Waterloo as normal and get a
bus to Euston (at least three routes IIRC) and walk from there. Or
you could walk to Aldwych and get a direct bus from there. It'll take
around 30 minutes either way.

Why on earth isn't there a direct bus between Waterloo and King's
Cross?! I never even noticed that before. These are arguably the two
most important railway termini.

No, since one of those is Liverpool Street. Just because it mostly serves
Essex and Hackney doesn't mean you can ignore it! Gaaah!

Unless you have some definition of 'important' that is not related to
passenger numbers, in which case you will be the first up against the wall
when the revolution comes.

Liverpool Street is very important - but when I was referring to King's
Cross I meant (and didn't make at all obvious) the combination of King's
Cross, St Pancras and King's Cross Thameslink.

That's what i assumed - i don't think of them as separate stations.

I'm not sure on the passenger numbers but combined it must be at least a
competitor to Liverpool St.

I think Greater King's Cross is the second busiest station in London,
after Liverpool Street; i think Waterloo is a lot further down. I can
never find the figures, though!


Figures are available somewhere and I have seen them, the combined
figures together means it would still come behind Victoria(I believe
is the busiest passenger station in London), Liverpool Street and
Waterloo.

One thing to consider is the nature of the journeys: i think LS is so busy
because of all the commuter traffic into the city, but handles relatively
little long-haul traffic (there isn't really anywhere to long-haul to,
except Chelmsford, Colchester and Norwich), whereas KX, along with Euston,
is the hub for pretty much all of the trips along the length of the
country. I should imagine Waterloo's in a similar situation to Liverpool
Street, though: lots of inner and outer suburban traffic, not a lot of
long-distance. If you think long-distance traffic is more important in
some way, you could argue that KX is more important than LS, but i don't
think it works for Waterloo.

Whatever the passenger numbers, my rant is justified because Waterloo
has two buses to Liverpool Street :-) (26 and express 705) It also has
buses to Moorgate, Euston, Marylebone (Baker St), Paddington, Victoria,
Charing Cross, London Bridge, Fenchurch Street, Cannon Street and City
Thameslink. The only one left out seems to be Blackfriars - and the
buses to London Bridge and Elephant & Castle should cover that.

While we're ranting [1] - the buses at Blackfriars are a disgrace! The
stops for some of them are about twenty miles up the road! And there's
only one night bus - which is pretty daft, given that trains run there
until pretty late at night. I had to do Wallington to Clapton on a sunday
night once, which is why i'm bitter about this .

tom

[1] By which i obviously mean "While *i'm* ranting"