In message , at 08:53:18 on Sat, 27 Nov
2004, Mark Townend remarked:

Not all of Essex is 45min drive from Ebbsfleet at all times.
Not all trains in Essex are 'slow'

But you need to accept that those are the "normal" parameters. You can't
legitimately dismiss what "most people" would perceive, by isolated
counterexamples.

I do take the point you're going nearly 'all the way' into London to pick
the train up at Stratford if you're setting off from somewhere along the
north Thames bank.

I was thinking anywhere bounded (roughly) by the A12 and M25, out as far
as Witham.

Perhaps some enterprising organisation might start
express coach services from this area to Ebbsfleet via the M25.

That would be a good idea, yes.

I can't see
parking at Ebbsfleet being free either (what's the fee at Ashford?).

About a fiver a day. Very good value.

The opinion that everyone will drive anyway would mean that efforts to
improve public transport links at airports would be pointless too!

There's no harm in improving the link at Airports, but you also have to
improve the links at the end the punters live. To that extent, none of
the existing plans really help someone taking the E* who lives in
Southend.

--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 08:53:18 on Sat, 27 Nov
2004, Mark Townend remarked:

Not all of Essex is 45min drive from Ebbsfleet at all times.
Not all trains in Essex are 'slow'

But you need to accept that those are the "normal" parameters.

I most certainly do not. Where i grew up, Colchester, a large town in
Essex, is not 45 min drive from Ebbsfleet, not by a long chalk, and is
well served by fast trains to London.

I do take the point you're going nearly 'all the way' into London to
pick the train up at Stratford if you're setting off from somewhere
along the north Thames bank.

I was thinking anywhere bounded (roughly) by the A12 and M25, out as far
as Witham.

Ah, nothing that i'd count as actual Essex, then!

tom

--
resistance is fertile

In message ,
at 13:17:50 on Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Tom Anderson
remarked:

Not all of Essex is 45min drive from Ebbsfleet at all times.
Not all trains in Essex are 'slow'

But you need to accept that those are the "normal" parameters.

I most certainly do not. Where i grew up, Colchester, a large town in
Essex, is not 45 min drive from Ebbsfleet, not by a long chalk, and is
well served by fast trains to London.

Yes, Colchester is outside the area I was describing.

My route planner says 54 miles, so it'll depend a lot on the traffic!

The trains are fast, somewhat at the expense of people living further
down the line :-(

I do take the point you're going nearly 'all the way' into London to
pick the train up at Stratford if you're setting off from somewhere
along the north Thames bank.

I was thinking anywhere bounded (roughly) by the A12 and M25, out as far
as Witham.

Ah, nothing that i'd count as actual Essex, then!

You don't think Brentwood, Chelmsford, Witham, Southend, Basildon and
Grays are in Essex ?!?!?

--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Roland Perry wrote:

In message ,
at 13:17:50 on Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Tom Anderson
remarked:

Not all of Essex is 45min drive from Ebbsfleet at all times.
Not all trains in Essex are 'slow'

But you need to accept that those are the "normal" parameters.

I most certainly do not. Where i grew up, Colchester, a large town in
Essex, is not 45 min drive from Ebbsfleet, not by a long chalk, and is
well served by fast trains to London.

Yes, Colchester is outside the area I was describing.

My route planner says 54 miles, so it'll depend a lot on the traffic!

The trains are fast, somewhat at the expense of people living further
down the line :-(

I do take the point you're going nearly 'all the way' into London to
pick the train up at Stratford if you're setting off from somewhere
along the north Thames bank.

I was thinking anywhere bounded (roughly) by the A12 and M25, out as far
as Witham.

Ah, nothing that i'd count as actual Essex, then!

You don't think Brentwood, Chelmsford, Witham, Southend, Basildon and
Grays are in Essex ?!?!?

Witham and Chelmsford, yes. The others, no - that's Gormandy, not Essex.

tom

--
It is a formal cultural policy to show unreasonable bias towards any woman who is both attractive and wierd.

In article , Roland
Perry writes
You don't think Brentwood, Chelmsford, Witham, Southend, Basildon and
Grays are in Essex ?!?!?

Southend isn't (any more than Peterborough is in Cambridgeshire): it's
in the County of Southend-of-Sea. As for Grays, I don't have a map to
hand, but didn't Tendring Hundred declare UDI?

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:31:55 +0000, "Clive D. W. Feather"
wrote:

In article , Roland
Perry writes
You don't think Brentwood, Chelmsford, Witham, Southend, Basildon and
Grays are in Essex ?!?!?

Southend isn't (any more than Peterborough is in Cambridgeshire): it's
in the County of Southend-of-Sea. As for Grays, I don't have a map to
hand, but didn't Tendring Hundred declare UDI?


Grays is still in Essex!

Thurrock Council is now a Unitary Authority, taking a bigger share of
the local taxation pie, & providing some services that used to be
provided by the ECC, but the Police & Fire Services are still provided
via County Hall.

As for Herr Anderson's coments re "Gormandy?", I'd reccomend that he
should not pre-judge a sizeable chunk of Essex's population by their
accents / dialects or by where they chose to live!

Since he obviously has no knowledge of local traffic patterns, I'd be
happy to state that Colchester to Grays / Thurrock is an hour's drive
at legal speeds on a "good" day.
The layout of the new road network for Ebbsfleet Station is,as yet
unfinished, but it seems that to get there from the QE2 bridge, one
would have to drive down the A2, eastbound.
This will clash with the traffic to / from the Bluewater Mall !

So, as this time, based on some personal commuting experience between
Colchester & Thurrock, + local knowledge re trips to / from Kent, I'd
allow 2 hours from door to door by car!

Since it's unlikely that many E*'s will actually call at Stratford
&/or Ebbsfleet, I suspect that most of us will continue to drive to
Ashford & park there.
The M20 is a much quieter & quicker road than the A2, with better
access to the M25, & Ashford is an easy hours drive from the Dartford
Crossing.

DC

In article , DC
writes
Grays is still in Essex!

Thurrock Council is now a Unitary Authority,

and so for legal purposes isn't part of Essex any more. [This is an old
discussion between Roland and me.]

but the Police & Fire Services are still provided
via County Hall.

They're not done by counties any more - they have a separate precept. We
have the same issue up my way.

As for Herr Anderson's coments re "Gormandy?", I'd reccomend that he
should not pre-judge a sizeable chunk of Essex's population by their
accents / dialects or by where they chose to live!

Herr Anderson is clearly Gormless.

[Rest snipped. I grew up in Leigh-on-Sea and generally agree.]

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

"DC" wrote in message
...

The layout of the new road network for Ebbsfleet
Station is,as yet unfinished, but it seems that to
get there from the QE2 bridge, one
would have to drive down the A2, eastbound.

You didn't look at a map before posting that!

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

John Rowland wrote:
"DC" wrote in message
...

The layout of the new road network for Ebbsfleet
Station is,as yet unfinished, but it seems that to
get there from the QE2 bridge, one
would have to drive down the A2, eastbound.


You didn't look at a map before posting that!

What's wrong with his statement? He's correct; access to Ebbsfleet will
be via the A2 and a new spur road which leaves the A2 where the B259
currently crosses it on a bridge.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

You don't think Brentwood, Chelmsford, Witham, Southend, Basildon and
Grays are in Essex ?!?!?
Southend isn't (any more than Peterborough is in Cambridgeshire): it's
in the County of Southend-of-Sea. As for Grays, I don't have a map to
hand,

I do now - Grays isn't in Essex either.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: