The Daily Telegraph reports that Eurostar will quit Waterloo in 2007.

I think this is a good idea. Even from Waterloo, it would be quicket
to take the tube to St Pancras and then take a fast Eurostar.

The question is, what will happen to the 4 400m long platforms. On
previuos form, the rail companies will consider the issue in 2007,
make a decision in 2009, order rolling stock in 2010, and start using
them properly in 2014.

My suggestion. Act now, build extended, 400m platforms at a few outer
London station (perhaps Surbiton and Staines), and use these to
consolidate 8 carriage trains into 16 carriage trains for the final
trip through London.

This needs preperation now, but SW Trains, or DfT, will probably do
nothing till 2007.



Eurostar will drop Waterloo services when link opens
By Paul Marston, Transport Correspondent
(Filed: 15/11/2004)

Eurostar has dropped long-standing plans to continue to run some
services from London Waterloo when the high-speed link to the Channel
Tunnel is completed in 2007.


The Anglo-French company is expected to announce today that it will
close Waterloo International, from which it had previously intended to
operate about a third of trains to the Continent, when the faster
route into St Pancras opens.

The decision means that customers from south of the Thames will have
to travel considerably further to reach trains to Paris and Brussels,
though the track and platform capacity vacated at Waterloo will become
available to improve the reliability of domestic commuter services.

The international station, built for £130 million in 1993 and famed
for its glass roof, has four platforms and controls about 50 train
pathways a day, which could be transferred to South West Trains to
relieve overcrowding.

More than 1,400 Eurostar staff are employed at Waterloo and its
associated train depot at North Pole in west London. All will be given
the opportunity to transfer to St Pancras and a £300 million
yet-to-be-built depot at Temple Mills, near Stratford, in the East
End.

Senior executives at the train company have deliberated for almost a
year over whether to desert Waterloo, where Eurostar services began 10
years ago.

Some managers argued that lucrative business passengers in London's
affluent south-west suburbs would fly from Heathrow rather than
struggle across the capital to St Pancras if the Waterloo link were
severed.

They also maintained that French and Belgian business demand might
fall because Waterloo's dedicated non-stop Underground route to the
heart of the City was felt to be superior to the four-stop run on the
Northern line from St Pancras.

However the company's management board eventually decided that the
cost of maintaining two London bases would be too great.

It also concluded that the fact that journeys to Paris and Brussels
would be 20 minutes faster from St Pancras would lead inevitably to
the Waterloo route becoming viewed as a second-class option. Opening
of the final section of the high-speed link in early 2007 will cut
London-Paris times to 2hr 15min and London-Brussels to 1hr 53min.

Growth potential is seen as greater at St Pancras, because the station
- with adjoining King's Cross - has direct feeder services from the
East Coast and Midland main lines, Thameslink and six Tube routes.

Considerable debate took place over whether to change the station's
name because the fourth-century saint sparked little recognition among
the French and Belgians but St Pancras was a widely known name in
Britain.

Eurostar's board accepted, too, that the shift of London's
"International" rail title would spare French passengers any lingering
resentments about Napoleon's defeat in 1815.

"Alex Terrell" wrote

The decision means that customers from south of the Thames will have
to travel considerably further to reach trains to Paris and Brussels.


Hard on the heels of British Airways binning the Gatwick-Paris services!

"Henry" wrote in message ...
"Alex Terrell" wrote

The decision means that customers from south of the Thames will have
to travel considerably further to reach trains to Paris and Brussels.


Hard on the heels of British Airways binning the Gatwick-Paris services!

I wonder if there is scope for a Gatwick-Paris train service?

Actually, a fast Gatwick to Ashford service could do the trip in 1
hour. Asford is set to become a major hub with the CTRL, so this might
be an idea.

"Henry" wrote in message
...
"Alex Terrell" wrote

The decision means that customers from south
of the Thames will have to travel considerably
further to reach trains to Paris and Brussels.

Hard on the heels of British Airways
binning the Gatwick-Paris services!

Maybe a fast train from Reading via Guildford, Redhill and Tonbridge to
Ashford would do the trick.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:18:20 -0000, "John Rowland"
said:

Maybe a fast train from Reading via Guildford, Redhill

Fast? On that line? You've got to be joking!

--
David Cantrell | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

In message , Alex
Terrell writes

The Daily Telegraph reports that Eurostar will quit Waterloo in 2007.

I think this is a good idea. Even from Waterloo, it would be quicket
to take the tube to St Pancras and then take a fast Eurostar.

There's no direct tube! It ought to be quicker to take the Jubilee
direct from Waterloo to Stratford and pick-up Eurostar there. However,
the interchange at Stratford looks as though it is going to be poor.

--
Paul Terry

I would suggestr that if E* quit Waterloo then they are going to upset a lot
of important people. However leaving them aside I would think that at least
50% of E* present ridership has direct access to Waterloo and as a result
of the move any saving on the journey time from St.Pancras will be lost in
getting to St. Pancras. I foresee that the gainers in this piece of muddled
thinking will be E* competitors the airlines. Services from Gatwick to Paris
and Brssels will be reinstated and new ones will start from Southampton and
possibly Shoreham.

There are two other matters which come to mind E* say they cannot afford
Waterloo and yet they can afford three new stations. Perhaps someone can say
how they will be able to justify Stratford and Ebbsfleet. E* is at pains to
tell us how they have carried 6M passengers so far this year but I seem to
remember that 10 years ago the projection was that by now that there would
be 16M passengers. With regard to interchange at Stratford the E*station is
about 1/3rd of a mile from Stratford ML, UD and DLR but this will be
ameliorated by the decision to require Union Railways North to provide a
travelator.

Perhaps it is just as well that the passenger usage predictions have proved
to be wide of the mark because dispersal of such a measure of usage from the
Kings Cross area would only serve to demonstrate just how wrong the decision
to abandon Waterloo was.
MJW

"M.Whitson" wrote in message
...
I would suggestr that if E* quit Waterloo then they are going to upset a
lot
of important people.

Do important people only live in London and the South East, with rail
connections directly into Waterloo?

SNIP
E* is at pains to
tell us how they have carried 6M passengers so far this year but I seem to
remember that 10 years ago the projection was that by now that there
would
be 16M passengers.

Perhaps because of factors: NoL Eurostar, 11th September, and the delay in
building CTRL, to name but a few?

I'd like to be able to travel from my local station (about 1/4 mile from my
home), and get to France with minimal interchanges and fuss.

Present journey - Nodding Donkey to Sheffield, then a MML HST/Meridian to
St. Pancras, tube to Waterloo, E* to Lille.

Ideal journey - Tram/train to Sheffield, E* to Lille, along HSL.

As much as I'd like to go on train, as we prefer it, I drive us down to
Ashford, or we fly from Manchester. I don't want to suffer multiple changes
and dragging of suitcases on the tube, just to London and the SE can have
Waterloo for their sole "exclusive" use.

Charley, Huddersfield

"Charley_Ashbury" wrote in message
...

"M.Whitson" wrote in message
...
I would suggestr that if E* quit Waterloo then they are going to upset a
lot
of important people.

Do important people only live in London and the South East, with rail
connections directly into Waterloo?

I think you have missed the point. The important people are the denizens of
Whitehall and the Palace of Westminster both within a short taxi ride of
Waterloo. Also you cannot escape the fact that it is more than likely that a
very large proportion of E* passengers originate from locations with direct
access to Waterloo. Paris/Brussels bound passengers from more than 40 miles
north of London will find it far more convenient and less time consuming to
use their regional airport - Stanstead, Manchester, Liverpool Newcastle etc.
MJW

"M.Whitson" wrote in message
...

I think you have missed the point. The important people are the denizens
of
Whitehall and the Palace of Westminster both within a short taxi ride of
Waterloo. Also you cannot escape the fact that it is more than likely that
a
very large proportion of E* passengers originate from locations with
direct
access to Waterloo. Paris/Brussels bound passengers from more than 40
miles
north of London will find it far more convenient and less time consuming
to
use their regional airport - Stanstead, Manchester, Liverpool Newcastle
etc.

Those from South-East of London find it more convenient to go to Ashford,
rather than go into London, transfer to Waterloo, walk down a very long
platform, and return whence they came. Gatwick was much more convenient, but
nature abhors a vacuum.
--
Terry Harper
http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/