Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:


Aidan Stanger wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:


Aidan Stanger wrote:


Tom Anderson wrote:


On Thu, 25 Nov 2004, Dave Arquati wrote:


then following the North London Line route to Stratford.

Clearly, the only sensible solution is up the West Anglia from
Hackney.

I couldn't disagree more. Firstly, although Stratford's links with
much of Central London are good, there is no direct line to Kings
Cross.


It's always Stratford, Stratford, Stratford! What's so great about
Stratford anyway? Bah!


Secondly, Hackney's links with Stratford are currently inadequate -
the trains are infrequent, short and overcrowded. Thirdly, a well
designed Hackney station would incorporate Hackney Downs station, so
you would still get the benefits while the trains continue to serve
the popular destination of Liverpool Street.

Stratford will have a link to Farringdon with CR1; it's only a short
hop from there to King's Cross. And an upgrade of the NLL would go
towards improving links between Hackney and Stratford. I would say
that giving the West Anglia lines (particularly the Lea Valley) a
direct link to the West End would give greater regeneration benefits
than going to Stratford, which will already have some impressive new
links.

But if the West Anglia lines gained a direct service to the West End,
it would be at the expense of their direct service to the City, so
they'd be worse off.

Fair enough, they'd be worse off if CR2 replaced their direct services
to the City.


It wouldn't have to replace it - there could be two routes south from
Hackney. I'm not sure if this would be a good idea from an operational
point of view, though - shades of the Bakerloo. On the other hand, if this
was going to be CR2 rather than CH, ie a NR-style moderate-frequency
timetabled service, rather than a LU-style high-frequency random service,
it might work alright.

Crossrail 1 will be a very high frequency (24tph) LU-style service in
the centre, with pretty high frequency on the eastern branches (12 + 12
tph, plus extras on the Gt Eastern). I imagine Crossrail 2 would be the
same on the central core - it's too expensive to pass a cost-benefit
analysis otherwise. The frequency at Hackney would depend on whether any
branches (like Finchley) diverged before it. Even if a Finchley branch
diverged, Hackney would still probably receive 12tph which need to
continue somewhere (e.g. up the Lea Valley).

However, extra capacity and better connections will be urgently needed
further up the Lea Valley and near to Stansted will be needed if
government plans for significant house-building in this area are given
the go-ahead.

A CR1 branch up the Lea Valley Line would do this, though. I refuse to
believe CR1 can't support three interfaces at each end. Or, if it's stuck
at two, maybe this route will be added when the Docklands branch is
eventually cut back to non-existence!

If 12tph are needed for the Great Eastern and 12tph are needed for
Canary Wharf, how are you going to fit more trains through the central
tunnel! Anyway, I believe this discussion has been done at length in the
past :-)

The Victoria line will also be in urgent need of congestion relief.

Taking over the Central Line from Stratford serves neither objective,

And that's the rub - even if CH did take over the NLL route to Stratford,
where would it go afterwards? The Central Line is daft, the GE's
Crossrailed already, which basically only leaves the Lea Valley Line - and
KX - Hackney - Stratford - Tottenham Hale is, if you'll excuse the pun,
completely loopy! Unless you're proposing to take over the DLR?

The original Crossrail 2 proposal serving Stratford envisaged taking
over the Central line to Epping (leaving Central line services to the
Hainault Loop) and the North London Line to North Woolwich! The arrival
of Crossrail 1 in the Royal Docks and of the DLR extensions obviates the
need for that branch. I also think substituting the NLL between Dalston
and Stratford would be a very bad idea; a significant customer base for
orbital journeys has developed along the NLL. I've used the NLL
occasionally in the off-peaks, and the trains are always fully seated or
overcrowded.

I believe you're right; those Crossrail 2 trains should be routed up the
Lea Valley line. Not all 12tph have to run beyond Hackney; perhaps
8tph could fit into the Lea Valley services, retaining a direct service
to Liverpool Street, but allowing passengers to be distributed to other
nodes like Dalston Junction, Essex Road and Angel where they can pick up
services to different parts of the City if more convenient.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London