In news Steve Fitzgerald ] typed:

Single ended units come in A and D end variants (Even numbered ones
are A end and odd numbered ones are D). Double ended units have an A
and a D end cab.

It might be obvious but not to me. What is the advantage of having all the
units the same way round during the closure of the loop?

I could understand if the loop was going to permanently closed, so that
route maps could also be displayed 'in the direction of travel', but not
while it will reopen as a loop.


Bob

"Bob Wood" wrote in message
...

It might be obvious but not to me. What is the
advantage of having all the units the same way
round during the closure of the loop?

I could understand if the loop was going to
permanently closed, so that route maps could
also be displayed 'in the direction of travel',
but not while it will reopen as a loop.

It would still be possible to introduce handed in-car line guides with half
the cars the wrong way around, so long as they stayed the wrong way round
for the duration of the closure.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

Looks like very bad planning to me - they withdraw the direct tube
service but fail to provide a convenient alternative! Surely it
wouldn't be that hard to extend the H25, so that passengers once
again have a convenient service from the rail interchange at
Feltham?

The H25:

* isn't very frequent (4ph weekdays, 2ph evenings and Sundays)
* uses small buses which don't have the extra luggage space of
airport
buses
* isn't very reliable and doesn't often run to timetable
* would provide a worse service on the rest of the route if it was
delayed around Heathrow
* is run by Tellings Golden Millar, the worst bus company in London

I wouldn't imagine BAA would touch it with a barge pole.
Matt Ashby
www.mattashby.com

"Bob Wood" wrote in message
...
It might be obvious but not to me. What is the advantage of having all
the
units the same way round during the closure of the loop?

Basically, the problem arises because a 73ts will *NOT* couple A to A or D
to D.

Half of the single-ended units were built to face Heathrow whilst half were
built to face Cockfosters.

For example, you can have:
114-514-314 + 315-515-115 (D to A)
203-603-403 + 404-604-204 (A to D)
888-688-889 + 301-501-101 (D to A)

You can not have:-
114-515-314 + 312-512-112 (D to D)
895-694-894 + 892-692-893 (A to A)

By having all the units facing the right way (I've no idea if this is the
plan - Steve?!), as they were built to do, it guarantees that you have a
balance of A- and D-facing units, and generally makes it easy for the depot
staff because any unit can couple to any unit.

If you have some A-facing units facing Cockfosters and some facing Heathrow,
you have a situation where you can choose two units which are otherwise
correct for a train (i.e. a cab at each end) but which cannot couple to each
other. It is much simpler for depot staff if this situation is avoided.

The problem does not arise on the Northern or Central Lines because all
units can be coupled to each other. The reason this is not done on all stock
is because it requires the electrical wiring to be duplicated through the
coupling (couplers are either left or right handed, IYSWIM), which is more
expensive and more prone to failure.

It is not simply a matter of having line maps facing the right way, though
this is a useful spin-off as far as the passenger is concerned.

In message , David Splett
writes
By having all the units facing the right way (I've no idea if this is
the plan - Steve?!)

Yes, hence the occasional use of the loop on 7 January despite T4 being
closed.

The notice we have states that the Line Controller will arrange for
trains requiring to be turned to go round the loop.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Mrs Redboots wrote:

Aidan Stanger wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 12 Dec 2004:

Looks like very bad planning to me - they withdraw the direct tube
service but fail to provide a convenient alternative! Surely it wouldn't
be that hard to extend the H25, so that passengers once again have a
convenient service from the rail interchange at Feltham?

It isn't inconvenient now - I did it twice over the summer, and it was
fine. Bus goes to central bus station - forget the number, but it's
pretty self-explanatory when you're there.

Having done so myself last year to get to T3, I agree, but for T4 it's
not so good.

And the old bus service never did serve T4,

Yes it did, but not on the same route - there was the separate route T4.

so you're no worse off than you were before. For me, in South London,
it's my preferred way of going to Heathrow, although I doubt it's quicker
than the Tube!

For those parts of South London that aren't on the tube network but have
direct rail access to Waterloo (including Waterloo East) it is quicker
than the tube.

Actually, to get from T123 to T4, can't you use the Heathrow Express? I
seem to remember that was the preferred way of going from t'other to
which.....

Yes you can, but can a detour that big be described as "convenient"?

wrote:

Looks like very bad planning to me - they withdraw the direct tube
service but fail to provide a convenient alternative! Surely it
wouldn't be that hard to extend the H25, so that passengers once
again have a convenient service from the rail interchange at
Feltham?

The H25:

* isn't very frequent (4ph weekdays, 2ph evenings and Sundays)
* uses small buses which don't have the extra luggage space of
airport buses
* isn't very reliable and doesn't often run to timetable
* would provide a worse service on the rest of the route if it was
delayed around Heathrow
* is run by Tellings Golden Millar, the worst bus company in London

I knew TGM were the worst bus company in SE London since taking over
Crystals, but I thought their SW London operations were much better run.
Have they slipped? Or was my impression wrong from the start?

What kind of buses do they normally use? Couldn't bigger buses be
substituted?

Is the traffic between T4 and Hatton Cross really that unpredictable?

4bph isn't bad for a Feltham service, but the route is quite short so
the frequency could quite easily be boosted.

I wouldn't imagine BAA would touch it with a barge pole.

The other logical alternative would be a Heathrow - Hatton Cross -
Feltham service that could be absorbed into route H25 when the
Piccaqdilly Line service is restored.

John Rowland wrote:
It would still be possible to introduce handed in-car line guides
with half
the cars the wrong way around, so long as they stayed the wrong way
round
for the duration of the closure.

Do you mean like those abominations found on some other lines where the
way the line is drawn is relative to the side of the carriage its stuck
on?
So you have that incredibly logical situation of trying to a find a
station
in east london and having to look at the left hand side of the line map
(unless you use the mirror image diagram on the other side of the
carriage)?

Whoever though that idiocy should be locked up in a padded cell and
never
let near a map again. I don't expect to see street maps upside down or
back to front just because the wall they're on is facing a certain
direction
so who in gods name thought it would be a good idea for line diagram to
be
like that?

B2003

Boltar wrote:

I don't expect to see street maps upside down or
back to front just because the wall they're on is facing a certain
direction
so who in gods name thought it would be a good idea for line diagram to
be
like that?

I agree, this is nutty.
--
Michael Hoffman

Michael Hoffman wrote:

Boltar wrote:

I don't expect to see street maps upside down or
back to front just because the wall they're on is facing a certain
direction
so who in gods name thought it would be a good idea for line diagram to
be
like that?


I agree, this is nutty.

It's the most natural thing in the world, once you get used to it (as I
did when I lived abroad).

It just seems awfully counter-intuitive the first times you come across it.