Boltar wrote:
Yeah, right. It's got nothing to do with the fact the average worker
in China gets paid 67p a day! Are you volunteering to take on that
kind of wage to restore the manufacturing base of the UK?

France, germany, italy etc sitll have viable large scale car
manufacturers,
train builders etc. Hmm , wonder why that is. Could it be the workers
actually got on with doing their job instead of farting about on a
picket
line? I'm old enough to remember the strikes at Leyland and it was
just

so sad to see those cretins warming their hands over the oil drums
digging
not only their own career graves and that of their children, but the
whole british
car industry. The same could be said for various other blue collar
industries
in britain too.


The only reason that we have unions at all is because of crap managers. If
the people running a business treated the workforce as well as they wish to
be treated themselves there wouldn't be a need for unions.

Bad news for you Boltar.....
the car manufacturers are fleeing France and Germany as quick as they can.
Rover = Indian cars Citroen/Peugeot = Czech Republic BMW = South Africa VX =
Poland plus all the others are desperate to leave. You think its because
they want to spread the wealth to these low wage/low safety places??
Nope...its because they can get people to work for lower wages. They have no
feeling for the average British/Western Europe workers...its all about
money. Havent noticed the price of these cars coming down..have you?
So this is wrong...
"France, germany, italy etc sitll have viable large scale car manufacturers"

"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com...
Yeah, right. It's got nothing to do with the fact the average worker
in
China gets paid 67p a day! Are you volunteering to take on that kind
of
wage to restore the manufacturing base of the UK?

France, germany, italy etc sitll have viable large scale car
manufacturers,
train builders etc. Hmm , wonder why that is. Could it be the workers
actually got on with doing their job instead of farting about on a
picket
line? I'm old enough to remember the strikes at Leyland and it was just

so sad to see those cretins warming their hands over the oil drums
digging
not only their own career graves and that of their children, but the
whole british
car industry. The same could be said for various other blue collar
industries
in britain too.

B2003

A pay rise???? Wow.....
I'm begining to see a different side to you.

"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com...
6 months to train plus the recruitment process (and in fact, by your
proposal you will have fired all the trainers too!). I'm not sure
Londoners could stand that long.

Not necessarily. If it was up to me I'd get all LUL staff to sign a non
strike agreement. If they sign it they get a pay rise , if they don't
they
get the sack. Carrot and stick approach. Anyone who breaks the
agreement would be fired on the spot, no negotiation.

I'm genrally in favour of unions, they're they're to stop exploitation
of
workers which as we know still happens. However , when people start
to use and abuse those powers and generally take the **** then its
time to get heavy handed I'm afraid.

B2003

No Santa??????
Whats all that about?

Mal.

PS - Do you remember when LU and the Union went to ACAS and LU decided not
to accept the findings? Oh...and ...... Did you know that when they have
gone to ACAS the union has accepted every result?

"Boltar" wrote in message
ups.com...
So you think it's okay for employees to deny workers their rights?

Thats their story. I believe it about as much as I believe that Santa
will be
landing on my roof next week. So far every union complaint in the last
few
years has turned out to be BS.

B2003

The only reason that we have unions at all is because of crap
managers. If
the people running a business treated the workforce as well as they
wish to
be treated themselves there wouldn't be a need for unions.

Well thats the clincher isn't it. What is "as well as they wish to be
treated"?
We'd all like to just sit at home and be mailed cheques every month but
lifes
not like that and part of being an adult is realising that you can't
get something
for nothing and get away with making a mess and suffer no consequences.

Its a lesson that the RMT and Aslef don't seem to have learnt yet.
B2003

Brimstone wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:


Apathy is the biggest problem facing the British workforce because most
people can't see further ahead than the next pay packet and that includes
"management". Far too many people suffer from myopic tunnel vision.


How very true. I've never had the kind of job where I needed to be in a
Union, but if I had had, I would certainly have *been* in the Union, not
just passively paid my subscription. I hope.... then again, knowing my
younger self, probably not!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 12 December 2004

Brimstone wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

The only reason that we have unions at all is because of crap managers. If
the people running a business treated the workforce as well as they wish to
be treated themselves there wouldn't be a need for unions.


My father, who was a "boss", employed people who belonged to the
appropriate union (agricultural workers), and while he was totally in
favour of the union making sure all their members, including his
employees, got a fair deal - agricultural workers have always been
poorly paid - he said that the one thing he disliked was that he
couldn't reward someone who worked really well over and above standard
union rates without paying everybody the same, even those who didn't
deserve it - so the good workers didn't get as much money as he would
have liked them to!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 12 December 2004

In message , Bored Of The
Rings writes

Well, it is the right of every working man and woman to withdraw their
labour if they so wish. Good luck to the tube workers, they have one of the
strongest unions in the country in the RMT, if they didnt they,d be sold
down the river and stitced up, like the bus drivers!!

A point of order. The proposed strike on the Piccadilly is by ASLE&F
members.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

In message . com,
Boltar writes
6 months to train plus the recruitment process (and in fact, by your
proposal you will have fired all the trainers too!). I'm not sure
Londoners could stand that long.

Not necessarily. If it was up to me I'd get all LUL staff to sign a non
strike agreement. If they sign it they get a pay rise , if they don't
they
get the sack. Carrot and stick approach. Anyone who breaks the
agreement would be fired on the spot, no negotiation.

Ah but previously you wanted to 'sack 'em all'.

I'm genrally in favour of unions, they're they're to stop exploitation
of
workers which as we know still happens. However , when people start
to use and abuse those powers and generally take the **** then its
time to get heavy handed I'm afraid.

And you don't think your proposals smack of exploitation?

How are you so sure that the action being taken isn't to prevent just
such 'exploitation'? I assume you are party to all the facts in the
cases, and not just those selectively published in the Evening Standard?
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

I've had enough of these arseholes. Why can't the goverment step in to
sort these militants out like they did with other industries and if
they won't play ball then just fire the ****ing lot of them.

"Tube drivers on the Piccadilly line are to strike on Christmas Eve
and 5 January in a row over the demotion of a driver for passing red
signal lights."

"Aslef claims an appeal hearing for the demoted driver took place
without any union representation."

So you think it's okay for employees to deny workers their rights?


Nick Cooper

So you think it's okay for drivers to pass red signals?

Marc.