With the coming of the revamped timetable for South West Trains, I've
just experienced what I believe to be a Desiro on the Hounslow loop.
Seems like a nice interior, but we'll see how it puts up with the
vandals. The loo designed to accommodate the requirements of disabled
people was out of use. Ride quality was odd compared to the ?317s used
previously - it seemed to be far more badly affected by track
imperfections that the 317: it didn't jolt, but swayed and rolled more
like being on board ship.

Anyway, the odd thing was that I was on an eight car train, but only
the doors in the front four cars were enabled at Wandsworth Town,
Barnes, Kew Bridge and Isleworth on the way out from Waterloo. The
reason given was short platforms - or in other words, as the platforms
hadn't changed, the train was too long for the platforms. This
prompts several questions:

1) How come it wasn't possible to lock out only the rearmost car's
doors? This would be more useful.

2) Surely the platform lengths were known - so why build trains that
are too long, and don't easily accommodate themselves to short
platforms by locking out the minimum number of doors necessary?

3) How long are these trains compared to the older (?317) stock (or
even the slam door stock)?

4) I noticed that the resignalling work a few years ago seemed to move
the stop point (the 8 car/4 car black signs with white 4 or 8 numeral)
on several platforms, wasting some of the platform length - why was
this? Surely it makes sense to use all the platform available?

5) What will the long term solution be? I'm not at all sure the
Isleworth platform can be extended easily or cheaply, as the station
fills the space between two bridges - it looks like major bridge
rebuilding/widening would be needed. Barnes has only recently been
resignalled and had platform work so I'm surprised it's too short.

Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.

Regards,

Sid

317's south of the river? That's a new one on me.

The trains that usually run that line are class 455's. They are
externally identical to the 317's except 317's are built for
outer-suburban use and have better interiors.

The new train you came across wasn't a desiro but a class 458 'juniper'
unit which believe it or not is already in it's last days of operation.

The new train you came across wasn't a desiro but a class 458
'juniper'
unit which believe it or not is already in it's last days of
operation.

There have been numerous Class 450 Desiros on the Windsor lines all
this week.

David

wrote:
317's south of the river? That's a new one on me.

The trains that usually run that line are class 455's. They are
externally identical to the 317's except 317's are built for
outer-suburban use and have better interiors.

The new train you came across wasn't a desiro but a class 458
'juniper'
unit which believe it or not is already in it's last days of
operation.

Sorry, I'm no good at identifying these trains - I did a Google image
search and picked the ones that looked appropriate. It would be easier
if the darn things had an obvious reference like cars - Astra, Mondeo,
Megane etc written on the side or back.

I think the identifying bit might be the green LED dot matrix indicator
on the side that shows the destination - for what I called a
Desiroanyway. The others are 4 or 8 car multiple units, often with one
of the 4 cars having a lower roof-line and a different body shape. The
seats come up to just below my shoulder-blades, whereas in the
'Desiros', the back comes up to head height or thereabouts.

If the 'Junipers' were used occaisonally on the Waterloo to Reading
Service, with the Orange Dot Matric LED display showing destination on
the front of the train, then I'm not talking about those. The rest of
the questions still stand, 'though.

Regards,

Sid

Sid wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

The rest of
the questions still stand, 'though.

Regards,

Sid

So do mine about how common slam-door trains are on a mid-morning (post
rush-hour) service from Streatham Common to Clapham Junction (I've done
this route frequently enough, and never before have I met a VEP on it),
or a mid-afternoon (pre rush-hour) service from Putney Bridge ditto. I
didn't think South Western had many CEPs left, although I've
occasionally had a VEP from CJ to Datchet - but these days they are more
often slightly more modern trains.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 12 December 2004

On 16 Dec 2004 05:30:41 -0800, wrote:

The trains that usually run that line are class 455's. They are
externally identical to the 317's except 317's are built for
outer-suburban use and have better interiors.

The new train you came across wasn't a desiro but a class 458
'juniper'
unit which believe it or not is already in it's last days of
operation.

Sorry, I'm no good at identifying these trains - I did a Google image
search and picked the ones that looked appropriate. It would be easier
if the darn things had an obvious reference like cars - Astra, Mondeo,
Megane etc written on the side or back.

They do - the number ;-)

Generally the *set* number (on the front, as opposed to the individual
car numbers on the side) starts with the class number, although on the
southern routes it's often only the last digit of the class. So 455s
tend to have set numbers 5xxx, although I believe at least one
company's refurbs are to be numbered the full 455xxx.

Big difference between a 455 and 317 is that 455s run on third rail
and 317s run on overhead power supply. So if there are no wires it's a
455!

Difference between a Juniper (class 458) and Desiro (class 444 or
450): Junipers have flat sloping fronts with retractable gangways - so
the centre of the front has no windows IIRC. Desiros look more curved
at the front, and have 'proper' gangways.


If the 'Junipers' were used occaisonally on the Waterloo to Reading
Service, with the Orange Dot Matric LED display showing destination on
the front of the train, then I'm not talking about those.

These days Junipers are very common on Waterloo-Reading - it's their
main route.

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:50:03 +0000, Mrs Redboots
wrote:

Sid wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:

The rest of
the questions still stand, 'though.

Regards,

Sid

So do mine about how common slam-door trains are on a mid-morning (post
rush-hour) service from Streatham Common to Clapham Junction (I've done
this route frequently enough, and never before have I met a VEP on it),

Outside the rush hour not many. Suburban stations like STreatham
Common tend to be served by 455s; the slam door trains are really main
line stock so are only used in the inner suburbs in the peaks and a
few shoulder of peak workings IIRC - so once the peak's over they're
quite rare. On the main line routes they're more common.

or a mid-afternoon (pre rush-hour) service from Putney Bridge ditto. I
didn't think South Western had many CEPs left, although I've
occasionally had a VEP from CJ to Datchet - but these days they are more
often slightly more modern trains.

Datchet is generally served by 455s IIRC, although I did hear talk of
outer suburban (ie Desiro/Juniper) trains being planned for that line.

nice pictures he

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Pages EMU/Recognition
EMU/IllusEMU_450.html

http://www.semg.org.uk/gallery/class450_01.html
http://www.semg.org.uk/gallery/class444_01.html/

Datchet is generally served by 455s IIRC, although I did hear talk of
outer suburban (ie Desiro/Juniper) trains being planned for that line.

They're running Desiros to Windsor ER now.

Mark

Mark wrote to uk.transport.london on Thu, 16 Dec 2004:



Datchet is generally served by 455s IIRC, although I did hear talk of
outer suburban (ie Desiro/Juniper) trains being planned for that line.

They're running Desiros to Windsor ER now.

Good! Let's hope there's one when I go that way next Monday evening.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 12 December 2004