In article , Troy
Steadman writes
Didn't there used to be trains that instead of disgorging their
passengers at the docks actually drove (drove?) steamed on to sidings
on the decks of ships then steamed off Stena-like to continue their
journey across Europe?

There are still although not in the UK since the demise of the Night
Ferry in c. 1970's -
I can still recall seeing the Wagon Lits SNCF train at London Victoria

It was withdrawn due to problems with the French stock unique as being
French but built to UK loading gauge.
The ferry I understood last much longer for freight wagons.

In Europe they still exist in 2002 I used the Puttgarden (Germany to
Rodby (Denmark) ferry a through Danish DMU service from Hamburg to
Copenhagen.
A 2nd Germany / Denmark ferry left the Danish port of Gedser also
existed which ran to the Former East Germany, which was declared surplus
following reunification
Puttgarden to Rodby ferry is now less important following the Danish
completion of the Storebelt Bridge/Tunnel between Korsor and Nyborg
which linked the island of Zealand which hosts the Danish capital
Copenhagen with rest of Denmark. This was completed c. late 1990's
reducing Danish Inter-City Train journeys by about 1 hour.
The night train and maybe some other trains from Germany to Copenhagen
now takes this route AFAIK, before trains were conveyed by ferry (Trains
and Passengers only no cars which had a separate ferry.

IN 2000 another Bridge/Tunnel was constructed linking Denmark with
Sweden (Malmo) which no doubts means the existing ferry between
Helsingor (Denmark) and Helsingborg (Sweden) might soon be history

I think there may be still a few elsewhere in the world, but I have
personally only used the above.

In the case of the Puttgarden - Rodby ferry the Danish DMU is driven
onto the ferry, (tracks on car deck) it is then shut down, although you
could stay on the train if you wished, or alight and go up on deck, the
train seemed to be treated like just another 'road' vehicle.

I saw a train from Sweden unloading at Helsingor, and immediately behind
the last carriage road vehicles started disembarking likewise.

--
Alan Osborn

"Alan Osborn" wrote in message
...

There are still although not in the UK since the demise of the Night
Ferry in c. 1970's -
I can still recall seeing the Wagon Lits SNCF train at London Victoria

It was withdrawn due to problems with the French stock unique as being
French but built to UK loading gauge.
The ferry I understood last much longer for freight wagons.

The Night Ferry was carried on the St Germain which was also used as a car
ferry (I used it in 1965). I also travelled on it with the Night Ferry in
1980 (having used the connecting boat train). It was replaced in c 1988 by
the Nord Pas de Calais, a purpose built trainferry which required two
dedicated 33/2s to shunt so the boat stayed upright in the trainferry dock.
It was proposed that prohibited tunnel freight would use it after the
opening of the same but it now carries lorries only, saw it last month.

MartinM wrote:
"Alan Osborn" wrote in message
...

There are still although not in the UK since the demise of the
Night
Ferry in c. 1970's -
I can still recall seeing the Wagon Lits SNCF train at London
Victoria

It was withdrawn due to problems with the French stock unique as
being
French but built to UK loading gauge.
The ferry I understood last much longer for freight wagons.

The Night Ferry was carried on the St Germain which was also used as
a car
ferry (I used it in 1965). I also travelled on it with the Night
Ferry in
1980 (having used the connecting boat train).

The Dover - Dunkerque service was operated by the St. Germain and the
St. Eloi in the 80's.

It was replaced in c 1988 by
the Nord Pas de Calais, a purpose built trainferry which required two
dedicated 33/2s to shunt so the boat stayed upright in the trainferry
dock.
It was proposed that prohibited tunnel freight would use it after the
opening of the same but it now carries lorries only, saw it last
month.

The Nord Pas de Calais replaced both boats, and was big enough to offer
more rail capacity in total, doing a minimum of three round trips a
day. It also used a new berth at Dunkerque, which didn't require the
previous negotiation of a major lock. This speeded up the crossing time
considerably.

The small amount of dangerous goods traffic which could not pass
through the Tunnel would not have justified keeping the train ferry
service going, unfortunately.

I don't know what's happened to the St. Germain, on board which I had
two notable crossings (amongst many). I sailed on the (former) St. Eloi
in about 1993 though, from Heysham to Douglas and back. The rails on
the train deck had been filled in and were no longer easily visible.

The Chartres also had a rail deck, and was sometimes used as a stand-in
when one of the other boats was under maintenance.

Cheers

Mike

In article , Alan Osborn
wrote:
[snip]

IN 2000 another Bridge/Tunnel was constructed linking Denmark with
Sweden (Malmo) which no doubts means the existing ferry between
Helsingor (Denmark) and Helsingborg (Sweden) might soon be history

I have used the Helsingør (Denmark) to Helsingborg (Sweden) ferry (foot
passengers and cars, no trains) recently and there was plenty of traffic. I
think it will stay open.

Michael Bell

--

Scripsit Alan Osborn

IN 2000 another Bridge/Tunnel was constructed linking Denmark with
Sweden (Malmo) which no doubts means the existing ferry between
Helsingor (Denmark) and Helsingborg (Sweden) might soon be history

It's already history as far as carrying trains go. The track to the
ferry berth at Helsingborg has been paved over, and I'm fairly certain
the track at Helsingør has been removed too.

The automobile-carrying business goes on unabated, however. Despite
the bridge, the route through Helsingør-Helsingborg is quicker and
cheaper for car journeys between most of Copenhagen and points in
Sweden north of Helsingborg.


The bridge link did kill of a number of ferry routes further south in
the Sound: The car ferries Dragør-Limhamn and Tuborg-Landskrona, as
well as the passenger-only catamarans between Copenhagen and Malmö
city centres.

--
Henning Makholm "*Vi vil ha wienerbrød!*"

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:19:28 +0000, Henning Makholm
wrote:

Scripsit Alan Osborn

IN 2000 another Bridge/Tunnel was constructed linking Denmark with
Sweden (Malmo) which no doubts means the existing ferry between
Helsingor (Denmark) and Helsingborg (Sweden) might soon be history

I used the Helsingør-Helsingborg ferry in the days before the bridge
at Malmo with journeys starting in Sweden. The return journeys were a
nightmare as the ferries were packed with drunk Swedes who were taking
advantage of the cheaper alcohol prices in Denmark. I don't know if
it's still as bad but I recommend welly boots if you take the trip!

Paul

wrote:

I used the Helsingør-Helsingborg ferry in the days before the bridge
at Malmo with journeys starting in Sweden. The return journeys were a
nightmare as the ferries were packed with drunk Swedes who were taking
advantage of the cheaper alcohol prices in Denmark. I don't know if
it's still as bad but I recommend welly boots if you take the trip!

I have been across the bridge three times - twice on trains and once on
a coach. Also been across the ferry once too, but didn't see many
drunken Swedes - perhaps the unearthly hour of the crossings (5am-ish)
might be to blame!

Also been across the Putgarden-Roedby ferry a few times and although I
didn't see any trains on the ferry (again, unearthly hours!) I was
surprised to see the tracks leading up and on to the ferry. I wonder how
they manage the marry the tracks on the ferry to the tracks on the land?

--
Jonathan Stott
Canterbury Weather: http://www.jstott.me.uk/weather/

"Jonathan Stott" wrote in message
...
wrote:

I used the Helsingør-Helsingborg ferry in the days before the bridge
at Malmo with journeys starting in Sweden. The return journeys were a
nightmare as the ferries were packed with drunk Swedes who were taking
advantage of the cheaper alcohol prices in Denmark. I don't know if
it's still as bad but I recommend welly boots if you take the trip!

I have been across the bridge three times - twice on trains and once on
a coach. Also been across the ferry once too, but didn't see many
drunken Swedes - perhaps the unearthly hour of the crossings (5am-ish)
might be to blame!

Also been across the Putgarden-Roedby ferry a few times and although I
didn't see any trains on the ferry (again, unearthly hours!) I was
surprised to see the tracks leading up and on to the ferry. I wonder how
they manage the marry the tracks on the ferry to the tracks on the land?

I believe via a ramp, the Ladybird book said that the low tidal variation
made this possible on the Continent but not the UK (although Harwich was a
ramp IIRC)
I used the through train on this route in 1983 on an Inter-Rail, if you
stayed on board there was no need to buy a ferry ticket; you could of course
alight on board.

MartinM wrote:
"Jonathan Stott" wrote in message
...

Also been across the Putgarden-Roedby ferry a few times and
although I
didn't see any trains on the ferry (again, unearthly hours!) I was
surprised to see the tracks leading up and on to the ferry. I
wonder how
they manage the marry the tracks on the ferry to the tracks on the
land?

I believe via a ramp, the Ladybird book said that the low tidal
variation
made this possible on the Continent but not the UK (although Harwich
was a
ramp IIRC)

It's called a linkspan. It is vertically flexible, but where the tidal
variation is too extreme it operates inside a lock, as it did at
Dunkerque prior to the opening of the new berth for the Nord Pas de
Calais.

I used the through train on this route in 1983 on an Inter-Rail, if
you
stayed on board there was no need to buy a ferry ticket; you could of
course
alight on board.

Inter Rail and any other through rail tickets are usually valid on
ferry routes which are included in the CIV, train ferry or not.

The Vogelfluglinie (Puttgarden - Roedby) ferries used to be renowned
for their food. Both DB and DSB ferries offered a single plate version
of a Smoergasbord, but it was a challenge to eat it all before arriving
at the other end. The food on the German Ferries (the Deutschland in
particular) was better than that on the Danish ones, IME.

Cheers

Mike