I read so many different messages on this groups about what happens it you
do/don't touch in/touch out with Oyster and the issue of 'unresolved
journeys' (and if they are necessarily a problem) that I am thoroughly tied
in a knot. So in order for me to give someone sound advice...

On a commute between East Croydon and City Thameslink using an Oyster with a
period travelcard covering the whole journey, the gateline at East Croydon
deals with the touch-in and touch-out at that end. At City Thameslink there
are no gatelines but are Oyster validators (I don't know if they are marked
for Pre-Pay only but I've certainly not seen them used much when I've passed
through there). Is touching in and out at City Thameslink

a) always necessary
b) necessary sometimes (perhaps if you go on to enter a nearby tube station)
c) merely encouraged
d) of no benefit whatsoever
e) any other answer

Thanks. I suspect the answer is unlikely to be a).

I think I have been particularly bamboozled by having passed through
Wimbledon station lately. There _all_ Oyster users arriving on Tramlink are
warned to validate at their originating tramstop in order to be able to exit
at Wimbledon (though this advice no longer appears on 'Ask Oyster', just the
website) and I've never figured out why. I can understand the need for an
entry to the system to pair up with an exit but I would have thought it
would be possible for National Rail users to also have arrived without
having validated at their origin.

G.

I think I have been particularly bamboozled by having passed through
Wimbledon station lately. There _all_ Oyster users arriving on Tramlink
are
warned to validate at their originating tramstop in order to be able to
exit
at Wimbledon (though this advice no longer appears on 'Ask Oyster', just
the
website) and I've never figured out why. I can understand the need for an
entry to the system to pair up with an exit but I would have thought it
would be possible for National Rail users to also have arrived without
having validated at their origin.

OK thinking about it more I realise I was only thinking in terms of the
honest punters and I can see this being useful as an anti-fraud measure to
prevent anyone travelling on the tube/national rail without the appropriate
ticket using a relatively cheap tramlink pass to allow them to exit the
station.

website) and I've never figured out why. I can understand the need for an
entry to the system to pair up with an exit but I would have thought it
would be possible for National Rail users to also have arrived without
having validated at their origin.

I've only just got mine (Z1/2) so I'm learning too, but I understand they
would like everyone to touch in and touch out. At the moment, the system
"trusts" travelcard users to not stray outside their zones (and why not, if
you're caught out of zone you'll be PF'd as you would be had you got a paper
one). It "distrusts" pre-pay users and stings them for a full all zones
journey if they don't touch out, and/or leaves an unresolved journey on the
card.

In that respect, why should the Oyster be any different to a paper one? If
you have a two zone pass and you join the tube at an ungated station why
should you touch in? My route takes me into the system at KX anyhow so I
always touch in/out, though someone at work with a Z1-4 says she never
touches in when she joins the tube at Finsbury Park and has never been
charged extra or incurred an unresolved journey.

I can see the time in future though when they might sting travelcard users
too, or they could suspect you of evasion if your journeys come out of Z1 in
the morning and in at Z1 in the evening, never joining or leaving the system
at the other end. No doubt they want the data from people making journeys to
see where pinch points, busy routes, and where they can maximise future
price increases as necessary. It's all valuable data and if half of it's
missing it's not as useful to 'em

Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, 6 Jan 2005 22:22:48 -0000, "Dave Plumb"
wrote:

In that respect, why should the Oyster be any different to a paper one?

Because the idea is that, with an Oyster, you'll never be in the
position of being PFed, because if you travel out of zones you will
simply have the appropriate add-on fare deducted from your pre-pay
balance.

Because people will wise up to this and try it on, the only feasible
way to do it is to debit the maximum amount and re-credit it as
described.

The only other way is a more radical restructuring of the fares system
based on a much simpler capped flat fare system for Oyster replacing
all ticket types, be they Travelcards, seasons or whatever. It is a
shame that this has not been done.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Because the idea is that, with an Oyster, you'll never be in the
position of being PFed, because if you travel out of zones you will
simply have the appropriate add-on fare deducted from your pre-pay
balance.

People will wise up to this and try it on, the only feasible
way to do it is to debit the maximum amount and re-credit it as
described.

Do you think so? I reckon most people with less than all zones have their
regular journey covered by it and only occasionally go out of zone (my Z1/2
is all I need most of the time). It also relies on manual gates being open,
the money being lost this way is probably low and I doubt your seasoned
dodger would chance this

The only other way is a more radical restructuring of the fares system
based on a much simpler capped flat fare system for Oyster replacing
all ticket types, be they Travelcards, seasons or whatever. It is a
shame that this has not been done.

Once they've gathered travel times and patterns from the large amount of
data being collected hopefully they will re-evaluate current tickets. I've
often thought annuals are unfair as although you pay for 10 months and get
12, there are a lot of weekends when you probably won't, holidays, sickness
and any other times you're not at work. When I worked shift I bought one
even though it may have been £100 a year more expensive than buying
individuals or weeklies purely because it was go anywhere for a whole year
with no queueing involved. I think there's another thread on this saying
pre-pay is already cheaper than an annual. It'd be good if you could load a
lot of pre-pay on the ticket for a reduced price (i.e. you could put £800 of
pre-pay on the ticket and get £1000 of travel). After all the system runs
whether you're on it or not.

Dave

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:16:32 -0000, "Graham J"
wrote:

I read so many different messages on this groups about what happens it you
do/don't touch in/touch out with Oyster and the issue of 'unresolved
journeys' (and if they are necessarily a problem) that I am thoroughly tied
in a knot. So in order for me to give someone sound advice...

On a commute between East Croydon and City Thameslink using an Oyster with a
period travelcard covering the whole journey, the gateline at East Croydon
deals with the touch-in and touch-out at that end. At City Thameslink there
are no gatelines but are Oyster validators (I don't know if they are marked
for Pre-Pay only but I've certainly not seen them used much when I've passed
through there). Is touching in and out at City Thameslink

a) always necessary
b) necessary sometimes (perhaps if you go on to enter a nearby tube station)
c) merely encouraged
d) of no benefit whatsoever
e) any other answer

Thanks. I suspect the answer is unlikely to be a).

I'd suggest the answer is actually d. If you have an travelcard
loaded on your ticket, and your journey is entirely within the zones
that you have on your ticket, then there is no reason to touch in or
out.

I have a zone 2 annual travelcard on Oyster, and my daily journey is
between Bow Church DLR & South Quay DLR. Each DLR station has
validators, but I've never touched in or out.

Al Holmes

"Alastair Holmes" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 15:16:32 -0000, "Graham J"
wrote:

I read so many different messages on this groups about what happens it
you
do/don't touch in/touch out with Oyster and the issue of 'unresolved
journeys' (and if they are necessarily a problem) that I am thoroughly
tied
in a knot. So in order for me to give someone sound advice...

On a commute between East Croydon and City Thameslink using an Oyster
with a
period travelcard covering the whole journey, the gateline at East
Croydon
deals with the touch-in and touch-out at that end. At City Thameslink
there
are no gatelines but are Oyster validators (I don't know if they are
marked
for Pre-Pay only but I've certainly not seen them used much when I've
passed
through there). Is touching in and out at City Thameslink

a) always necessary
b) necessary sometimes (perhaps if you go on to enter a nearby tube
station)
c) merely encouraged
d) of no benefit whatsoever
e) any other answer

Thanks. I suspect the answer is unlikely to be a).

I'd suggest the answer is actually d. If you have an travelcard
loaded on your ticket, and your journey is entirely within the zones
that you have on your ticket, then there is no reason to touch in or
out.

I have a zone 2 annual travelcard on Oyster, and my daily journey is
between Bow Church DLR & South Quay DLR. Each DLR station has
validators, but I've never touched in or out.

Al Holmes

I tend to agree. My daily journey is from Hither Green BR to Wimbledon LU.
Hither Green may have validator(s) in the booking hall but I never use that
as there is a side entrance.
Wimbledon has gates which have wiped my paper ticket a couple of times and
swallowed it a couple of times [1] which is why I got an Oyster.

When I bought the Oyster card (Waterloo LU) I was told that if I did not use
the validator at Hither Green then I would quickly have an unresolved
journey and my Oyster card would stop working.

I have *never* used a validator at Hither Green and eight months down the
line I am still waiting for an unresolved journey.

[1] The last time this happened it took several minutes to get a member of
staff to come to the gate I was using (I did not want to leave it in case
another passenger used it and my card came out with theirs). When he did
come over he was very reluctant to open the machine up and seemed to think I
had used a single which had been retained by the machine, even though I was
entereing the station.
--
regards

Stephen

Stephen Osborn wrote:

When I bought the Oyster card (Waterloo LU) I was told that if I did
not use
the validator at Hither Green then I would quickly have an unresolved
journey and my Oyster card would stop working.

I have *never* used a validator at Hither Green and eight months down
the
line I am still waiting for an unresolved journey.

I think that must be correct, because NR stations with validators are
very much in the minority. (I can't think of a reason why Hither Green
would have one.) My daily journey is from Tulse Hill/Herne Hill to
Farringdon - LUL barriers at one end and nothing at all at the other -
and I've never had any unresolved journeys. I once looked at the usage
record on one of the big screen Tube ticket machines, and it recorded
those journeys as "Farringdon -"

Nowhere is this satisfactorily explained, for the simple reason that
the TOC's don't have the slightest interest in Oyster, and indeed view
it as a hindrance (there's a handwritten notice in the Herne Hill
ticket office saying something like "WE DO _NOT_ SELL OYSTERCARDS.
PLEASE GO TO A TUBE STATION." which strikes me as incredibly
unhelpful.) Until TfL provides some incentive for the TOCs to support
Oyster, the system is just going to have to cope with "one-ended"
journeys (even if that means lost revenue).

"Rupert Candy" wrote in message
oups.com...

the TOC's don't have the slightest interest in Oyster, and indeed view
it as a hindrance (there's a handwritten notice in the Herne Hill
ticket office saying something like "WE DO _NOT_ SELL OYSTERCARDS.
PLEASE GO TO A TUBE STATION." which strikes me as incredibly
unhelpful.) Until TfL provides some incentive for the TOCs to support
Oyster, the system is just going to have to cope with "one-ended"
journeys (even if that means lost revenue).

This is particularly evident at Romford Station where they can't even be bothered to allow TfL to
add Oyster readers to the gates so if you are unfortunate enough to have your ticket on Oyster you
have to queue to have a member of 'one' staff scan it with a hand held reader, or if it is busy
enough be "nodded" through on sight.