Graham J wrote:
I like TfL's idea of discounts for Tube-bus or bus-Tube through
journeys, but it may be difficult to implement. There would have to be a
limit on the time allowed for a bus journey to a Tube station, and a
limit on the time allowed to catch a bus after getting off the Tube.


I don't see that as being too difficult, provided you don't try to be too
clever about it and try too hard to limit it to genuine bus-tube or tube-bus
through journeys. Just make it a general case that any tube ticket bought
within a certain time of any bus ticket attracts a discount, and vice versa,
where that time could be extremely generous (say a couple of hours). There
will be those who are actually making two completely separate journeys, or a
return journey, who also get a bit of a discount but I don't see any problem
there at all. Just means a lot more happier people surely?

Indeed you might not need a time limit at all. If you were just interested
in encouraging peak time bus-tube through journeys then make it a peak-time
incentive. If you want to encourage it all day then make it all day. Don't
worry about how long apart the actual journeys are.

Thinking about it, it would be quite hard to abuse the system anyway - I
imagine the number of return trips where one leg is by Tube and the
other leg is by bus are small - except perhaps for when the return
journey is after the Tube stops.

Even so, if you are TfL, then it would be difficult to explain why you
are offering discounts for any bus journey following a Tube journey in
the same day (or vice versa). The main reason behind this idea has to be
to make life fairer or more convenient for people travelling to areas
not well-served by Tube, but still within a certain journey time of a
Tube station. Therefore it would make sense to introduce a reasonably
long time limit for the interchange (as you said initially), rather than
a blanket all-day discount which doesn't really serve any purpose.

A couple of hours between boarding a bus and entering a Tube station, or
between exiting a Tube station and boarding a bus, should be more than
sufficient - it would allow reasonable flexibility, such as visiting a
shop at the interchange point or meeting a friend en route.

The discount system might also encourage use of the suburban bus network
for those who don't usually take buses, which could have a knock-on
effect in increased bus use even when not related to a Tube trip, as
those people become more comfortable with buses.

Applying a similar "relaxed" logic to bus-bus through journeys isn't
necessarily a bad thing either. You could allow people an hour between
boarding one bus and the subsequent bus; enough time for an interchange,
but also for a quick return journey - but the latter would probably be a
minority of journeys anyway, and might even encourage use of the bus
(increasing profits).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote to uk.transport.london on Tue, 11 Jan 2005:

Thinking about it, it would be quite hard to abuse the system anyway - I
imagine the number of return trips where one leg is by Tube and the
other leg is by bus are small - except perhaps for when the return
journey is after the Tube stops.

Oh, I quite often do that when going into London - if I'm in a hurry, or
have a fixed appointment, I'll take the Tube there, and if I'm tired
after shopping I'll probably catch a bus home. Or vice versa.....
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 2 January 2005

Even so, if you are TfL, then it would be difficult to explain why you
are offering discounts for any bus journey following a Tube journey in
the same day (or vice versa). The main reason behind this idea has to be
to make life fairer or more convenient for people travelling to areas
not well-served by Tube, but still within a certain journey time of a
Tube station. Therefore it would make sense to introduce a reasonably
long time limit for the interchange (as you said initially), rather than
a blanket all-day discount which doesn't really serve any purpose.

I'm not entirely clear who those people are who are perceived to be treated
unfairly or inconvenienced (I'm not saying they don't exist, I genuinely
don't know who we are talking about). For example if I want to make a
return journey into Central London by bus and tube the off-peak travelcard
at £5.20 already compares favourably with the individual Pre-Pay fares at
£5-60/£6.10/£6.60 (depending on the timing of the tube legs) and even more
so with cash fares at £8.00 so clearly that is already well taken care of.
Are we talking more about peak periods or are there combinations of zones
that don't work out so well?

Graham J wrote:
Even so, if you are TfL, then it would be difficult to explain why you
are offering discounts for any bus journey following a Tube journey in
the same day (or vice versa). The main reason behind this idea has to be
to make life fairer or more convenient for people travelling to areas
not well-served by Tube, but still within a certain journey time of a
Tube station. Therefore it would make sense to introduce a reasonably
long time limit for the interchange (as you said initially), rather than
a blanket all-day discount which doesn't really serve any purpose.


I'm not entirely clear who those people are who are perceived to be treated
unfairly or inconvenienced (I'm not saying they don't exist, I genuinely
don't know who we are talking about). For example if I want to make a
return journey into Central London by bus and tube the off-peak travelcard
at £5.20 already compares favourably with the individual Pre-Pay fares at
£5-60/£6.10/£6.60 (depending on the timing of the tube legs) and even more
so with cash fares at £8.00 so clearly that is already well taken care of.
Are we talking more about peak periods or are there combinations of zones
that don't work out so well?

I see what you mean, but the idea is that the discount for the through
journey will make Prepay cheaper for a simple return journey. For
example, for someone in Battersea who feeds into Vauxhall by bus for a
journey to King's Cross, the current prepay fare is £0.80 + £1.70 each
way (£5.00 return, making the off-peak travelcard cheaper at £4.70).
However, imagine the bus fare is only £0.40 for journeys connecting
to/from a Tube leg - £2.10 each way, making the return journey £4.20.

It lessens the £1.30 "penalty" for not living near a Tube station to £0.40.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

I see what you mean, but the idea is that the discount for the through
journey will make Prepay cheaper for a simple return journey. For
example, for someone in Battersea who feeds into Vauxhall by bus for a
journey to King's Cross, the current prepay fare is £0.80 + £1.70 each
way (£5.00 return, making the off-peak travelcard cheaper at £4.70).
However, imagine the bus fare is only £0.40 for journeys connecting
to/from a Tube leg - £2.10 each way, making the return journey £4.20.

It lessens the £1.30 "penalty" for not living near a Tube station to
£0.40.

I think you mean to £0.80 but that doesn't change the point of course. I
see the idea now. Not sure I can totally sympathize with the view of this
being a "penalty" for not living near a tube station though and I am a
decent bus ride away from the nearest one myself.

I guess if national rail stations were brought into the TfL zonal pricing
for singles and returns it would also weaken the argument somewhat.

Graham J wrote:
I see what you mean, but the idea is that the discount for the through
journey will make Prepay cheaper for a simple return journey. For
example, for someone in Battersea who feeds into Vauxhall by bus for a
journey to King's Cross, the current prepay fare is £0.80 + £1.70 each
way (£5.00 return, making the off-peak travelcard cheaper at £4.70).
However, imagine the bus fare is only £0.40 for journeys connecting
to/from a Tube leg - £2.10 each way, making the return journey £4.20.

It lessens the £1.30 "penalty" for not living near a Tube station to

£0.40.

I think you mean to £0.80 but that doesn't change the point of course. I
see the idea now. Not sure I can totally sympathize with the view of this
being a "penalty" for not living near a tube station though and I am a
decent bus ride away from the nearest one myself.

I guess if national rail stations were brought into the TfL zonal pricing
for singles and returns it would also weaken the argument somewhat.

That would certainly affect the argument from some places in South
London, like Battersea, where a quick and regular rail service feeds
into the Tube at Vauxhall (and Victoria), but the additional fare
discourages people using it.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London