On 13 Jan 2005 22:45:33 -0800, wrote:

Before privatisation most trains had guard/luggage vans where bikes
could be stored. Now only a few remaining slam door trains have them.
Pity also the poor traveller with lots of luggage and nowhere to put it
on a train. Yet another example of market forces driven profit before
people.

Twaddle. New trains have, for a long period, not had guard's vans,
even under BR. This is nothing to do with "profit before people", but
is merely because passenger trains no longer carry newspapers, parcels
and post so the space is really not needed.

Those who do need it (cyclists, those with luggage and wheelchair
users) are better served by distributed space in the passenger saloon
or vestibule, because in the former case they can keep an eye on their
bike or luggage, while in the latter they can travel in suitable
accommodation and not in what feels like the back of a lorry.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
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Neil Williams wrote:
On 13 Jan 2005 22:45:33 -0800, wrote:

Before privatisation most trains had guard/luggage vans where bikes
could be stored. Now only a few remaining slam door trains have
them.
Pity also the poor traveller with lots of luggage and nowhere to put
it
on a train. Yet another example of market forces driven profit
before
people.

Twaddle. New trains have, for a long period, not had guard's vans,
even under BR. This is nothing to do with "profit before people",
but
is merely because passenger trains no longer carry newspapers,
parcels
and post so the space is really not needed.

New trains mainly came in after privatisation. Before the BR had been
run down. Cyclists and people with lots of luggage still need the
space.

Those who do need it (cyclists, those with luggage and wheelchair
users) are better served by distributed space in the passenger saloon

Sure! Crammed in with standing passengers near the doors.

or vestibule, because in the former case they can keep an eye on
their
bike or luggage, while in the latter they can travel in suitable
accommodation and not in what feels like the back of a lorry.

When I use the few remaining guard's vans I sit in the adjacent
compartment with other travellers.

Cycling groups are constantly at odds with TOs over the modern lack of
provision.

--
UK Radical Campaigns
www.zing.icom43.net
"Democracy is just another way of controlling and exploiting people".

wrote in message
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Neil Williams wrote:
On 13 Jan 2005 22:45:33 -0800, wrote:

Before privatisation most trains had guard/luggage vans where bikes
could be stored. Now only a few remaining slam door trains have
them.
Pity also the poor traveller with lots of luggage and nowhere to put
it
on a train. Yet another example of market forces driven profit
before
people.

Twaddle. New trains have, for a long period, not had guard's vans,
even under BR. This is nothing to do with "profit before people",
but
is merely because passenger trains no longer carry newspapers,
parcels
and post so the space is really not needed.

New trains mainly came in after privatisation. Before the BR had been
run down. Cyclists and people with lots of luggage still need the
space.

Those who do need it (cyclists, those with luggage and wheelchair
users) are better served by distributed space in the passenger saloon

Sure! Crammed in with standing passengers near the doors.

or vestibule, because in the former case they can keep an eye on
their
bike or luggage, while in the latter they can travel in suitable
accommodation and not in what feels like the back of a lorry.

When I use the few remaining guard's vans I sit in the adjacent
compartment with other travellers.

Cycling groups are constantly at odds with TOs over the modern lack of
provision.


Using a train and a bicycle ? bit OTT that, smacks of hypermobility. I use
just one car, no need for all the other forms of transport being used at the
same time. Plus I can get big suitcases in it.

On 15 Jan 2005 00:41:13 -0800, wrote:

New trains mainly came in after privatisation.

No, they didn't. Provincial, which is what became Regional Railways,
bought a lot of stock in the mid-late 1980s, as did NSE. None of it
had guard's vans, though some did have dividable luggage areas (like a
Voyager or a Pendolino has, for that matter).

Those who do need it (cyclists, those with luggage and wheelchair
users) are better served by distributed space in the passenger saloon

Sure! Crammed in with standing passengers near the doors.

No, in a multipurpose luggage/cycle rack in the saloon. Just like
First North Western installed on all their refurbished units.

I presume that you live in the South East, or in particular somewhere
on Southern, South Eastern or SWT. There is life outside that,
surprisingly enough.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.