In message , Mrs Redboots
writes

They are building lifts at Brixton, although I don't know which other
stations will be accessible *from* there for wheelchair users.

Tottenham Hale.

Tottenham Hale is the only station on the Victoria line that currently
has wheelchair access - it is difficult to believe it gets much use!

--
Paul Terry

On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:37:23 -0000, "Tony Wilson" a@a wrote:


A lot of people with luggage if they're getting on a crowded train
don't bother squeezing all the way through to put their luggage in
the correct place , they just dump it where they stand. And despite
what the political correctness Taliban would have us believe , sod all
wheelchair users ever use the tube. Certainly I don't ever remember
seeing more than 2 of them in 10 years of commuting on the system.


There are very few wheelchair users on the tube, but I have certainly seen
more than that, as I am on the Jubilee line extension, about the only part
of the tube that is actually wheelchair accessible. There aren't any
accessible Victoria line stations now, so I would be amazed if any use it at
present.

Incorrect - Tottenham Hale has a lift access from ticket hall to
platform level while there are ramps at street level to get people into
the ticket hall itself.

Brixton is also getting a lift as part of its rebuild - not sure about
street into the ticket hall as I have not been to Brixton for a long
time but I would imagine this is being catered for as the local
authority would not have granted consent to the works.

Whether people can get from platform into the train is a separate issue
and there is no level access across that gap with the current Vic Line
stock.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:40:06 +0000, Dave Newt
wrote:

Mrs Redboots wrote:
They've had them on the Paris Metro since the year dot - certainly back
in the days of the old Sprague trains. I'm actually surprised they
haven't been introduced here until relatively recently. In the Metro,
there are great signs telling you not to use them during the rush hours
or when the train is busy

and, importantly, people *do*!!!

They also let people off first before getting on; when on, stand aside
to let people off; sometimes even step off temporarily to let people off!

And they do all this with no announcements!

I think this is largely a self enforcing cultural thing. The trains have
had such seats for so long and the "rules" are so well understood that
it is accepted as decent behaviour.

How different to here, where the same old mantra is repeated 6 times at
almost every station, and is routinely ignored.

Well yes but I have to say that the constant exhortations to "do this,
do that, breath in, breath out, this line is running, this one isn't,
don't leave your bag" drive me crazy even though there are good reasons
for making the announcements. Some stations achieve a balance but the
odd one doesn't and a wait of more than two minutes can mean you hear a
stream of noise over and over again.

Oh and if the new Vic Line trains are to have fewer seats than now then
there will be even bigger fights to push onto the trains to get a seat.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Boltar wrote:
Neil Williams wrote:

I suspect that the seating arrangement will be similar to the

Northern

and Piccadilly line trains, both of which I recall are provided with
tip-ups in places.


From the computer sim images they showed it looked like there'd be a
lot
more flip ups than on the northern (theres none on the picc).


The reduction will be by way of the removal of the transverse seats,
which has already happened on other deep-level lines because they
aren't wide enough for two average people, and don't have enough
legroom for anything other than midgets to sit opposite one another.


True , they are narrow , but small people and kids can sit happily on
them and larger people choose to stand. With less seats they both get
to stand. They also replaced the transverse seats on the C stock and
replaced them with longitudinal seats which seemed to be a child sized
profile which no one can sit comfortably in.

I find C stock immensely more comfortable than anything with transverse
seats.

The longitudinal layout has proven itself on other lines - I doubt
that cost has a lot to do with it. The availability of a place to

put

luggage or a wheelchair without blocking the vestibules (where the
train isn't crush loaded of course) seems a sensible idea, and again
is helpful in the Northern and Picc trains.


A lot of people with luggage if they're getting on a crowded train
don't bother squeezing all the way through to put their luggage in
the correct place , they just dump it where they stand. And despite
what the political correctness Taliban would have us believe , sod all
wheelchair users ever use the tube. Certainly I don't ever remember
seeing more than 2 of them in 10 years of commuting on the system.

They won't use it if they can't.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Mrs Redboots wrote:
Tony Wilson wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 9 Feb 2005:


There aren't any
accessible Victoria line stations now, so I would be amazed if any use it at
present.


They are building lifts at Brixton, although I don't know which other
stations will be accessible *from* there for wheelchair users.


Personally I fully support the improvements in accessibility, wherever it is
economic to do so; while I am able bodied, some of the lifts on the Jubilee
line are well-used by many for whom steps are a pain without actually being
disabled (the elderly, those with heavy luggage or children in prams etc.) I
have even had to queue for the lifts at Green Park when going to and from
Heathrow with a suitcase due to the number of people changing trains with
luggage!


The lifts on the DLR (at least, at East India which I was using
regularly at one stage), were marked with both a wheelchair and a
pushchair icon.

As is the step-free interchange between the Jubilee and other lines at
Green Park.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In article , Paul Terry
writes
They are building lifts at Brixton, although I don't know which other
stations will be accessible *from* there for wheelchair users.

Tottenham Hale.

Tottenham Hale is the only station on the Victoria line that currently
has wheelchair access - it is difficult to believe it gets much use!

However, the Victoria Line has lots of cross-platform interchange, and
there are other stations you can reach that way.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 14:40:06 +0000, Dave Newt
wrote:

How different to here, where the same old mantra is repeated 6
times at almost every station, and is routinely ignored.

Well yes but I have to say that the constant exhortations to "do
this, do that, breath in, breath out, this line is running, this
one isn't, don't leave your bag" drive me crazy even though there
are good reasons for making the announcements.

There are only good reasons if the announcements are effective. Since
there is, as you say, a constant stream of the damned things, it seems
to me very unlikely that they are effective, since people just switch
off or get irritated with them.

Has there been any research into the effectiveness of general
exhortations about keeping your belongings with you, about CCTV
coverage, about not smoking, etc.? (Though I realise that if a station
supervisor sees on his TV monitors someone smoking or walking away from
their baggage, a one-off targeted announcement may be useful.)

Similarly, has there been any research into comparative dwell times at
stations which do or don't have "closing doors" announcements? Since
all trains have audible warnings of closing doors (if you count D stock
hissing sounds as such), and it's hardly a surprise that the doors have
to close before the train departs, I can't believe that the
announcements do much good. If they were just "mind the doors" instead
of this nonsense about the train being ready to depart, which it plainly
isn't with all the doors open, it would be less annoying.

Some stations achieve a balance but the odd one doesn't and a
wait of more than two minutes can mean you hear a stream of
noise over and over again.

Agreed. Hearing more than once that there is a "good service" while
waiting for your train is particularly irritating. Or at Leicester
Square last night awaiting a westbound Piccadilly: "There is a good
service on the Northern line". The Paris Metro answer is to display
network-wide service disruption details on a monitor as you enter the
station, and I find this much more sensible.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:

Has there been any research into the effectiveness of general
exhortations about keeping your belongings with you, about CCTV
coverage, about not smoking, etc.?

I have always found it particularly hard to believe that the warning
not to leave personal belongings on the train was useful whatsoever.
While not smoking is a rule someone might not know, people will
not purposefully leave their belongings on trains, and I never think
"have I left anything on the train?" when I hear the announcement.

Maybe that's because I think about it before I get up and many people
don't? It really puzzles me.

--
Michael Hoffman

Richard J. wrote:
all trains have audible warnings of closing doors (if you count D
stock
hissing sounds as such), and it's hardly a surprise that the doors
have

The central line trains could be improved in this regard. Having the
beep/squeal go after the doors have started to close (and they close
quite fast) seems a curious design decision to me. I'm surprised they
haven't changed it by now.

to close before the train departs, I can't believe that the
announcements do much good. If they were just "mind the doors"
instead
of this nonsense about the train being ready to depart, which it
plainly
isn't with all the doors open, it would be less annoying.

Thing is , 99% of people know to get out of the way of the doors when
they're closing and don't need to be told anyway. Its the other
dimwitted
1% who can't seem to grasp the fact that the doors can't close with
their
fat arses or overstuffed backpacks in the way who are the problem and
they
obviously don't listen to the announcements anyway.

B2003

In message , Dave Newt
writes
Contrary to stereotype, the Parisian commuter is a much more
considerate being than the London one.
I would say that the Parisian *metro* commuter is much more considerate
than the London Underground one. Parisian *bus* commuters are, in my
experience, much worse. (Which is saying something these days!)
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk