Michael Hoffman wrote:


I'm not puzzled that people leave things on the train. I'm puzzled at
the thought that announcement would actually reduce the number of
people who leave things on the train. Is there any data to suggest
this, or is it a knee-jerk reaction to the problem?

People have been leaving their property on underground trains since 1863.
The announcements you refer to have only been in use for ten years or so.
Hardly knee-jerk.

(But I do agree they are a serious pain.)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:31:55 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:


You would not be puzzled if you read the daily report every day and saw
how many times there are disruptions because of luggage and items being
left behind. People can be completely clueless at times.

Then the announcements clearly don't work!

k wrote:
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 18:31:55 +0000, Paul Corfield
wrote:


You would not be puzzled if you read the daily report every day and
saw how many times there are disruptions because of luggage and
items being left behind. People can be completely clueless at times.

Then the announcements clearly don't work!

Do you know how many items were left before routine announcements were made?

Brimstone wrote:

People have been leaving their property on underground trains since 1863.
The announcements you refer to have only been in use for ten years or so.
Hardly knee-jerk.

I was calling it knee-jerk because I have seen no evidence that it helps,
it's just a predictable way of trying to solve the problem which may or
may not be effective.

(But I do agree they are a serious pain.)

I would be willing to put up with the pain if there were evidence they
actually worked. Which would actually be easy to prove, IMHO, but it
would require LU's help to do so.
--
Michael Hoffman

Michael Hoffman wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005, Paul Corfield wrote:


On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 00:23:11 +0000, Michael Hoffman
wrote:


Richard J. wrote:


Has there been any research into the effectiveness of general
exhortations about keeping your belongings with you, about CCTV
coverage, about not smoking, etc.?



I have always found it particularly hard to believe that the warning
not to leave personal belongings on the train was useful whatsoever.
While not smoking is a rule someone might not know, people will not
purposefully leave their belongings on trains, and I never think "have
I left anything on the train?" when I hear the announcement.

Maybe that's because I think about it before I get up and many people
don't? It really puzzles me.



You would not be puzzled if you read the daily report every day and saw
how many times there are disruptions because of luggage and items being
left behind. People can be completely clueless at times.

There is a security issue which cannot be ignored and while it may be
tiresome LU is required to respond in a particular way for a given
security rating. We have no choice and therefore prevention is better
then people being delayed.




Freeze! Put your hands on your head and step AWAY from the fallacy!

It is a security and operational issue, and LU do of course have to do
something about it. However, those announcements are only "doing
something" if they *work*, and the contention being bandied about is
that
they don't. As has been pointed out, the kind of person (which might be
normal people in a certain state of mind) who forgets their baggage is
probably not going to be much affected by the announcements. Has this
been
tested empirically?



What alternative is there? Get everyone to check in their personal
belongings item-by-item on entry to the system, store it on an Oyster
card and then check them out upon exit?

It's inevitable that forgetful people will... erm... forget. Making
announcements might not affect some people, but probably will affect
others.


Personally I doubt it. Although I could be convinced with the appropriate
experiment, which would be relatively easy to do--just stop making the
announcements on a particular stretch of the system for a month and see
what changes in lost items are experienced.

I'll support that experiment. As long as none of the lost items are bombs.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , Brimstone
writes
Announcements to remind people to take their belongings are very recent
in the history of train and bus travel
But signs, at least here in the Midlands, are not.

Midland Red instituted "Have you forgotten anything" signs in the
forties which lasted until the early seventies.

Cynic
I suppose people still forgot things, though.
(/cynic
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

--- Mrs Redboots said...

Tony Wilson wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 9 Feb 2005:

There aren't any
accessible Victoria line stations now, so I would be amazed if any
use it at present.

They are building lifts at Brixton, although I don't know which other
stations will be accessible *from* there for wheelchair users.


Wheelchair users should be able to use the cross-platform connections at
Stockwell, Oxford Circus, Euston, Highbury & Islington, and Finsbury
Park. (OTOH, that still leaves the question of how many stations on
those lines are wheelchair-accessible?)

"Mrs Redboots" wrote in message
...
Boltar wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 9 Feb 2005:

Call me a cynic but I can't help thinking that flip up seats are
probably a lot cheaper than the real thing though I'm sure this
in no way would influence their decision , no no, not at all.

They've had them on the Paris Metro since the year dot - certainly back
in the days of the old Sprague trains. I'm actually surprised they
haven't been introduced here until relatively recently. In the Metro,
there are great signs telling you not to use them during the rush hours
or when the train is busy, so that there is more room for standing
passengers.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos



They suck for tall people, though. When I'm on those seats, I have to sit
there, as if I stood up, I'd be all bent over. The trains in Paris work
better, as they're more square in cross-section. On those trains, I can
stand anywhere. On tube trains, I have to be in the centre of the train,
otherwise I hurt my neck/back.

"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
Michael Hoffman wrote:

Personally I doubt it. Although I could be convinced with the
appropriate experiment, which would be relatively easy to do--just
stop making the announcements on a particular stretch of the system
for a month and see what changes in lost items are experienced.

There is already substantial evidence that people leave things on trains
and buses when not reminded. Announcements to remind people to take their
belongings are very recent in the history of train and bus travel. In
previous years the Lost Property Office did a roaring trade in returning
lost items to their owners and selling off unclaimed property to help LT's
funds.

Whether or not the announcements have actually caused a reduction in lost
property I don't know.

Such an announcement did make realise that I was about to leave my coat on a
overhead rack on a train once. I normally blocked them out but part of my
brain must have been listening.

Dave

--- Boltar said...


True , they are narrow , but small people and kids can sit happily on
them and larger people choose to stand.

Eh??? What!?! Larger people do *not* willingly choose to stand in tiny,
low-roofed tube-stock trains. As soon as any crowd starts pushing us to
the edge of the carriage, we start banging our head on the low ceiling!