Ian Jelf wrote:

Although I have some sympathy with such a system, London is so large and
complex (and busy), that charging a supplement for Underground travel
(which is effectively what happens when compared to buses) is I feel
justified in return for the faster journey. (Hamburg has - or had -
something similar for its express buses).

Paris also has no bus-metro transfer beyond the sort of passes available
in London.

Strangely (to me), in Paris, there is in effect a supplement charged for
the buses. One ticket will take you right across the city on the Metro,
but 3 tickets may be needed for the same distance on a bus. I have often
wondered why this is.

--
John Ray, London UK.

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 15:41:32 +0000, John Ray
wrote:

Ian Jelf wrote:

Although I have some sympathy with such a system, London is so large and
complex (and busy), that charging a supplement for Underground travel
(which is effectively what happens when compared to buses) is I feel
justified in return for the faster journey. (Hamburg has - or had -
something similar for its express buses).

Paris also has no bus-metro transfer beyond the sort of passes available
in London.

Strangely (to me), in Paris, there is in effect a supplement charged for
the buses. One ticket will take you right across the city on the Metro,
but 3 tickets may be needed for the same distance on a bus. I have often
wondered why this is.

This is entirely a guess but I doubt that RATP want to encourage people
to use buses too much. This is simply because the network is nowhere
near as comprehensive as that in London and also it has fairly
restrictive operating hours. Given that a lot of people still live close
in to the centre and that Paris retains its local centres there is less
need for a comprehensive bus service.

In recent years there has been some improvement / expansion of the buses
but it is still the poor relation to the rail network. It gets even
worse once you leave the Paris city area and get to the suburbs. I stay
with friends to the North West of Paris and there is a good RER and SNCF
service but the only RATP bus is once an hour and the local operator
does not provide anything even resembling a bus service when compared to
the sheer excess of service we have in London for the same sort of area.
As an example I catch a SNCF local service from Gare du Nord and then
have to connect one stop by RER. Ideally I'd be able to get a local bus
from the SNCF station which is barely 10 mins by car from my friends
place. However there is NO local bus service between the two places and
I've only ever seen one bus (running off service) at about 8pm. It's
worse than some parts of deregulated Britain!

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

John Ray wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 13 Feb 2005:


Strangely (to me), in Paris, there is in effect a supplement charged for
the buses. One ticket will take you right across the city on the Metro,
but 3 tickets may be needed for the same distance on a bus. I have often
wondered why this is.

I know that was the case in the 1970s when I lived there, but I
*thought* - and I could easily be mistaken - that now it was one ticket
per zone, same as the metro?

I've just checked - it is one ticket now, except on the Balabus and four
other lines, the 221, 297, 299, 350 & 351. Don't know where those run,
but the 3-figure numbers tend to be in the suburbs. And you can't
change bus without another ticket.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

Mrs Redboots wrote:

John Ray wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 13 Feb 2005:


Strangely (to me), in Paris, there is in effect a supplement charged for
the buses. One ticket will take you right across the city on the Metro,
but 3 tickets may be needed for the same distance on a bus. I have often
wondered why this is.

I know that was the case in the 1970s when I lived there, but I
*thought* - and I could easily be mistaken - that now it was one ticket
per zone, same as the metro?

I've just checked - it is one ticket now, except on the Balabus and four
other lines, the 221, 297, 299, 350 & 351. Don't know where those run,
but the 3-figure numbers tend to be in the suburbs. And you can't
change bus without another ticket.

Thank you for that. I haven't used a bus in Paris for many years,
because of the (then) ticketing regime, so I hadn't noticed the change.
On my next visit I will try to wean myself away from the Metro.

--
John Ray

John Ray wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 14 Feb 2005:

Mrs Redboots wrote:

I've just checked - it is one ticket now, except on the Balabus and four
other lines, the 221, 297, 299, 350 & 351. Don't know where those run,
but the 3-figure numbers tend to be in the suburbs. And you can't
change bus without another ticket.

Thank you for that. I haven't used a bus in Paris for many years,
because of the (then) ticketing regime, so I hadn't noticed the change.
On my next visit I will try to wean myself away from the Metro.

If you read French, there's a very interesting history of the Paris bus
network on http://tinyurl.com/3rhfv which says, among other things, that
the 1970s were really the nadir of the network, and that they have done
a great deal to improve things since then.
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 01:39:53 +0000, John Ray
wrote:

Mrs Redboots wrote:

John Ray wrote to uk.transport.london on Sun, 13 Feb 2005:


Strangely (to me), in Paris, there is in effect a supplement charged for
the buses. One ticket will take you right across the city on the Metro,
but 3 tickets may be needed for the same distance on a bus. I have often
wondered why this is.

I know that was the case in the 1970s when I lived there, but I
*thought* - and I could easily be mistaken - that now it was one ticket
per zone, same as the metro?

I've just checked - it is one ticket now, except on the Balabus and four
other lines, the 221, 297, 299, 350 & 351. Don't know where those run,
but the 3-figure numbers tend to be in the suburbs. And you can't
change bus without another ticket.

Thank you for that. I haven't used a bus in Paris for many years,
because of the (then) ticketing regime, so I hadn't noticed the change.
On my next visit I will try to wean myself away from the Metro.

Or simply purchase a Mobilis ticket which is their version of a One Day
Travelcard. You get a form of "ID" card which you keep and then simply
buy a magnetic ticket as necessary. You then date it and write on the ID
card number. It is then valid for travel within the zones purchases.
Admittedly it is a sort of premium product but it is very handy if you
need to use SNCF or RER services beyond the central area. It also opens
up the bus network for you to use.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:

Or simply purchase a Mobilis ticket which is their version of a One Day
Travelcard. You get a form of "ID" card which you keep and then simply
buy a magnetic ticket as necessary. You then date it and write on the ID
card number.

I used one of those a few years ago, but not on buses. It was good value
for the trips I made on the day, and I was surprised that it isn't
publicised to tourists (or not noticeably). They plug the Paris Visite
pass in the tourist literature, but not Mobilis.

--
John Ray

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:53:00 +0000, John Ray wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:
Paul Corfield wrote:

Or simply purchase a Mobilis ticket which is their version of a One Day
Travelcard. You get a form of "ID" card which you keep and then simply
buy a magnetic ticket as necessary. You then date it and write on the ID
card number.

I used one of those a few years ago, but not on buses. It was good value
for the trips I made on the day, and I was surprised that it isn't
publicised to tourists (or not noticeably). They plug the Paris Visite
pass in the tourist literature, but not Mobilis.

I've used both. Mobilis is useful for one-day visits, but I doubt that
most visitors to Paris are only there for one day, so for most
visitors purposes Paris Visite is probably more useful.

The card they *don't* tell the tourists about is the Carte Orange in
its weekly form.

Granted the Carte Orange is only valid from Monday to Sunday (and you
need a photo for the ID card), but the zone 1-5 Carte Orange costs EUR
30,20 against EUR 45,70 for a 5-day zone 1-5 Paris Visite.

A 3-day 1-5 Visite costs EUR 37,35, so as the weekly Carte Orange is
sold until Wednesday, a 3-day midweek visitor would be better off
buying the Carte Orange!

--
Ross, a.k.a.
Prof. E. Scrooge, CT, 153 & bar, Doctor of Cynicism (U. Life)

Ross wrote:
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:53:00 +0000, John Ray wrote in
, seen in uk.railway:
Paul Corfield wrote:

Or simply purchase a Mobilis ticket which is their version of a
One Day Travelcard. You get a form of "ID" card which you keep
and then simply buy a magnetic ticket as necessary. You then date
it and write on the ID card number.

I used one of those a few years ago, but not on buses. It was good
value for the trips I made on the day, and I was surprised that it
isn't publicised to tourists (or not noticeably). They plug the
Paris Visite pass in the tourist literature, but not Mobilis.

I've used both. Mobilis is useful for one-day visits, but I doubt
that most visitors to Paris are only there for one day, so for most
visitors purposes Paris Visite is probably more useful.

For most visitors, the Carnet is more useful: 10 Metro/Bus tickets for
EUR 10.50, that's about 73p each. Unless you plan to make 6 or more
journeys in a day, it's not worth buying a Mobilis at EUR 5.30 (Zones
1,2). Paris Visite is more expensive, and is only worthwhile if the
discounts on other attractions that it offers match what you want to see
during your visit.

The card they *don't* tell the tourists about is the Carte Orange in
its weekly form.

Granted the Carte Orange is only valid from Monday to Sunday (and
you need a photo for the ID card), but the zone 1-5 Carte Orange costs
EUR 30,20 against EUR 45,70 for a 5-day zone 1-5 Paris Visite.

A 3-day 1-5 Visite costs EUR 37,35, so as the weekly Carte Orange is
sold until Wednesday, a 3-day midweek visitor would be better off
buying the Carte Orange!

.... if arriving by air to CDG. But most Eurostar tourists will need
only Zones 1-2, which is EUR 15.40 for a weekly Carte Orange or EUR
15.90 for 3 Mobilis 1-day tickets.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:53:00 +0000, John Ray
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:

Or simply purchase a Mobilis ticket which is their version of a One Day
Travelcard. You get a form of "ID" card which you keep and then simply
buy a magnetic ticket as necessary. You then date it and write on the ID
card number.

I used one of those a few years ago, but not on buses. It was good value
for the trips I made on the day, and I was surprised that it isn't
publicised to tourists (or not noticeably). They plug the Paris Visite
pass in the tourist literature, but not Mobilis.

I've never used the Paris Visite because like all such "special" tickets
it is a rip off unless you can guarantee to use all of the add on extra
discounts.

As suggested by another poster I had not considered the Carte Orange as
an option as I perhaps foolishly assumed you had to be a resident as
employers pay part of the costs of such tickets IIRC? I may need to do
some more investigation.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!