In message , at
15:39:51 on Tue, 15 Feb 2005, Dan Gravell
remarked:
The PM is hardly representative or comparable to "business men". I
don't know what you mean by "business man" but I'm guessing there's too
many of them to cater for aI'm afraid, and frankly they're not
important enough to concede to (unlike the PM).

So where do you draw the line?

At people with "Minister" in their job title.
"Junior Minister"
Managing Director of a PLC
Director of any registered Company
People called "Sales Manager" of a company with more than 1000 employees

....

Door to door? There's parking space outside every door in London
now? Central London?
Close enough for most of the purposes we are discussing. And an
awful lot of the cars in *central* London have drivers.

I really do not believe this. How many people work in the City? How
many people park there? I'd be surprised if the figure is as much as
10%.

A lot of them are driven to work, or drive to work. Otherwise this
conversation would not exist.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
15:39:51 on Tue, 15 Feb 2005, Dan Gravell
remarked:

The PM is hardly representative or comparable to "business men". I
don't know what you mean by "business man" but I'm guessing there's
too many of them to cater for aI'm afraid, and frankly they're not
important enough to concede to (unlike the PM).


So where do you draw the line?

At people with "Minister" in their job title.
"Junior Minister"
Managing Director of a PLC
Director of any registered Company
People called "Sales Manager" of a company with more than 1000 employees

Ultimately Roland, while we are constrained by natural language in
discussing this point one can always take the discussion down the road
of semantics and ambiguity into a dead end. Let's not do that 'eh?

Picking up on the original point, my position is that the car is still
overused given PT provision in London. I consider that in many cases
people are too lazy, or simply do not make a conscious decision to use
PT, as if they have some kind of logical reasoning limit. I come to this
conclusion witnessing the chronic congestion caused almost entirely by
private motor vehicle users in South London.

My point is that PT is inherently more scalable, and so would be better
fit to support the people wishing to be transported, regardless of their
bourgeois preferences.

In message , at
09:45:02 on Wed, 16 Feb 2005, Dan Gravell
remarked:

The PM is hardly representative or comparable to "business men". I
don't know what you mean by "business man" but I'm guessing there's
too many of them to cater for aI'm afraid, and frankly they're not
important enough to concede to (unlike the PM).
So where do you draw the line?
At people with "Minister" in their job title.
"Junior Minister"
Managing Director of a PLC
Director of any registered Company
People called "Sales Manager" of a company with more than 1000 employees

Ultimately Roland, while we are constrained by natural language in
discussing this point one can always take the discussion down the road
of semantics and ambiguity into a dead end. Let's not do that 'eh?

My choice would be "anyone whose employer considers them important
enough to issue them with a company car or chauffeur" - but I'm sure
others won't agree.

Picking up on the original point, my position is that the car is still
overused given PT provision in London. I consider that in many cases
people are too lazy, or simply do not make a conscious decision to use
PT, as if they have some kind of logical reasoning limit.

I think most of the people in the central area have made a very
conscious decision to use a car. You don't spend 30 grand on a merc, on
a whim!

I come to this conclusion witnessing the chronic congestion caused
almost entirely by private motor vehicle users in South London.

My point is that PT is inherently more scalable, and so would be better
fit to support the people wishing to be transported, regardless of
their bourgeois preferences.

There's precious little PT outside the M25, which is where a lot of the
people we were discussing originate their journeys from. As for local
journeys, I'm sure few would exchange their car for a bus when visiting
the supermarket for their weekly shop - or indeed when popping up to the
High St to pickup their takeaway. People *do* have reasons to use a car.
--
Roland Perry

Dan Gravell wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 16 Feb 2005:

Picking up on the original point, my position is that the car is still
overused given PT provision in London. I consider that in many cases
people are too lazy, or simply do not make a conscious decision to use
PT, as if they have some kind of logical reasoning limit. I come to this
conclusion witnessing the chronic congestion caused almost entirely by
private motor vehicle users in South London.

And there are some people who are simply too scared to use public
transport, reckoning that they'll be mugged, robbed, raped or otherwise
inconvenienced whenever they use it. I know a young woman of 18 whose
mother has simply never allowed her to use public transport in her
entire life, which I find very shocking. But Dad is a policeman, and
Mother says that "Dad tells them" all the dreadful things that go on, so
the young woman has probably never been on a bus or train in her entire
life. I am not easily shockable, but that did shock me!
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 23 January 2005 with new photos

Mrs Redboots wrote the following in:


Dan Gravell wrote to uk.transport.london on Wed, 16 Feb 2005:

Picking up on the original point, my position is that the car is
still overused given PT provision in London. I consider that in
many cases people are too lazy, or simply do not make a conscious
decision to use PT, as if they have some kind of logical reasoning
limit. I come to this conclusion witnessing the chronic congestion
caused almost entirely by private motor vehicle users in South
London.

And there are some people who are simply too scared to use public
transport, reckoning that they'll be mugged, robbed, raped or
otherwise inconvenienced whenever they use it. I know a young
woman of 18 whose mother has simply never allowed her to use
public transport in her entire life, which I find very shocking.
But Dad is a policeman, and Mother says that "Dad tells them" all
the dreadful things that go on

You have to admire the logic in that, it's like a doctor saying
"there's a lot of illness around, it seems like most of the people I
meet at work are sick!".

--
message by Robin May.
Drinking Special Brew will get you drunk in much the same way that
going to prison will give you a roof over your head and free meals.

http://robinmay.fotopic.net