I took a trip on a 38 from Piccadilly to Victoria yesterday afternoon.

Unusually, the conductor worked like a Trojan during the trip, checking
fares, calling out stops (with a lot of additional information, too) as
well as warnings. It was a pleasure to see.

My query, though, concerns Oyster.

I paid by Oyster Prepay and at Victoria I left the bus and went straight
into the Underground Station to top up it up. When I did so, I was
astonished to see my journey on the 38 already recorded on my usage.
How does this data get from the conductor's machine to Oyster's "Central
Control" so quickly?
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

Ian Jelf wrote:
I took a trip on a 38 from Piccadilly to Victoria yesterday afternoon.

Unusually, the conductor worked like a Trojan during the trip, checking
fares, calling out stops (with a lot of additional information, too) as
well as warnings. It was a pleasure to see.

My query, though, concerns Oyster.

I paid by Oyster Prepay and at Victoria I left the bus and went straight
into the Underground Station to top up it up. When I did so, I was
astonished to see my journey on the 38 already recorded on my usage. How
does this data get from the conductor's machine to Oyster's "Central
Control" so quickly?

Aha... the conductor's machine doesn't actually hold your information.
The information is stored on the card itself, so when the conductor
marks a bus journey using his machine, that bus journey is stored on the
card. As soon as your card then comes into contact with the central
network (mainly via LU gates, ticket machines or validators) then that
information can be synchronised with the network.

At least that's how I understand it works.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Ian Jelf typed


I took a trip on a 38 from Piccadilly to Victoria yesterday afternoon.

Unusually, the conductor worked like a Trojan during the trip, checking
fares, calling out stops (with a lot of additional information, too) as
well as warnings. It was a pleasure to see.

My query, though, concerns Oyster.

I paid by Oyster Prepay and at Victoria I left the bus and went straight
into the Underground Station to top up it up. When I did so, I was
astonished to see my journey on the 38 already recorded on my usage.
How does this data get from the conductor's machine to Oyster's "Central
Control" so quickly?

I thought some of this information was stored on the card BICBW.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

In message , Dave Arquati
writes
Ian Jelf wrote:
I took a trip on a 38 from Piccadilly to Victoria yesterday afternoon.
Unusually, the conductor worked like a Trojan during the trip,
checking fares, calling out stops (with a lot of additional
information, too) as well as warnings. It was a pleasure to see.
My query, though, concerns Oyster.
I paid by Oyster Prepay and at Victoria I left the bus and went
straight into the Underground Station to top up it up. When I did
so, I was astonished to see my journey on the 38 already recorded on
my usage. How does this data get from the conductor's machine to
Oyster's "Central Control" so quickly?

Aha... the conductor's machine doesn't actually hold your information.
The information is stored on the card itself, so when the conductor
marks a bus journey using his machine, that bus journey is stored on
the card. As soon as your card then comes into contact with the central
network (mainly via LU gates, ticket machines or validators) then that
information can be synchronised with the network.

At least that's how I understand it works.

D'oh, I suppose that that should have been obvious! :-)) Thanks for
telling me, though.
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:29:34 +0000, Dave Arquati wrote:

Ian Jelf wrote:
I took a trip on a 38 from Piccadilly to Victoria yesterday afternoon.

Unusually, the conductor worked like a Trojan during the trip, checking
fares, calling out stops (with a lot of additional information, too) as
well as warnings. It was a pleasure to see.

My query, though, concerns Oyster.

I paid by Oyster Prepay and at Victoria I left the bus and went straight
into the Underground Station to top up it up. When I did so, I was
astonished to see my journey on the 38 already recorded on my usage. How
does this data get from the conductor's machine to Oyster's "Central
Control" so quickly?

Aha... the conductor's machine doesn't actually hold your information.
The information is stored on the card itself, so when the conductor
marks a bus journey using his machine, that bus journey is stored on the
card. As soon as your card then comes into contact with the central
network (mainly via LU gates, ticket machines or validators) then that
information can be synchronised with the network.

At least that's how I understand it works.

Only partly correct I'm afraid.

The card will store 10 journeys worth of information. Therefore it is
updated each time there is a transaction such as an entry at a gate or
tapping your card on a bus reader. Both the card and reading device
exchange information and validity checks are made. There is a
transaction written to the card and also one generated in the reading /
checking device. As the conductor machine can deduct cash as well as
sell a paper ticket then it MUST record all transactions - how else is
the money accounted for?

The gates are polled regularly by a station computer which then
transmits info to the centre. Similarly when a driver or conductor
finish their shift they will place their module in a depot reader which
then downloads all the transaction info. In the reverse direction new
fares or card hotlists will go in the other direction when they log on
to start a shift.

The garage units will transmit their data to the central system at the
end of the operational day. This info is then sorted alongside all the
trip data for other modes.

Now this is where my knowledge as to what actually exists is a bit rusty
but the initial design of the centre was such that each night each card
record held in the central system would be updated and reconciled once
all the possible linked accountable devices had reported for the
previous day.

As an example all of today's transactions will be processed tonight so
that the central system has up to date records tomorrow. This is why for
capping that they ask you to raise any queries about incomplete trips
and caps the day *after* you travel. I created the basic operational
concept for the new parts of the central system and the last time I was
given a demo of it the supplier showed me the bits that I had specified
working. There's obviously a hell of a lot of detail within the design
that was developed after I left the team. Nice to know I got something
right!

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:29:34 +0000, Dave Arquati wrote:


Ian Jelf wrote:

I took a trip on a 38 from Piccadilly to Victoria yesterday afternoon.

Unusually, the conductor worked like a Trojan during the trip, checking
fares, calling out stops (with a lot of additional information, too) as
well as warnings. It was a pleasure to see.

My query, though, concerns Oyster.

I paid by Oyster Prepay and at Victoria I left the bus and went straight
into the Underground Station to top up it up. When I did so, I was
astonished to see my journey on the 38 already recorded on my usage. How
does this data get from the conductor's machine to Oyster's "Central
Control" so quickly?

Aha... the conductor's machine doesn't actually hold your information.
The information is stored on the card itself, so when the conductor
marks a bus journey using his machine, that bus journey is stored on the
card. As soon as your card then comes into contact with the central
network (mainly via LU gates, ticket machines or validators) then that
information can be synchronised with the network.

At least that's how I understand it works.


Only partly correct I'm afraid.

The card will store 10 journeys worth of information. Therefore it is
updated each time there is a transaction such as an entry at a gate or
tapping your card on a bus reader. Both the card and reading device
exchange information and validity checks are made. There is a
transaction written to the card and also one generated in the reading /
checking device. As the conductor machine can deduct cash as well as
sell a paper ticket then it MUST record all transactions - how else is
the money accounted for?

I realise the conductor's machine must record the transactions, but the
station ticket machine also showed Ian's bus journey straight away. Does
it only read the information from the card, or does it also synchronise
with the central database - or is that left to the update from the
conductor's machine only?

I also presume some new software had to be downloaded into every single
Oyster reader for the introduction of capping - I wonder whether this
has been done in advance with it only becoming "switched on" tomorrow?

(snip some very useful detail)

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:41:45 +0000, Dave Arquati wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 13:29:34 +0000, Dave Arquati wrote:

The card will store 10 journeys worth of information. Therefore it is
updated each time there is a transaction such as an entry at a gate or
tapping your card on a bus reader. Both the card and reading device
exchange information and validity checks are made. There is a
transaction written to the card and also one generated in the reading /
checking device. As the conductor machine can deduct cash as well as
sell a paper ticket then it MUST record all transactions - how else is
the money accounted for?

I realise the conductor's machine must record the transactions, but the
station ticket machine also showed Ian's bus journey straight away. Does
it only read the information from the card, or does it also synchronise
with the central database - or is that left to the update from the
conductor's machine only?

As I understand it the station machine only reads the card - hence why
only 10 journeys can be displayed. If the central system had to be
interrogated every time then the system traffic would be huge for little
purpose. Transactions would take longer at ticket machines as well.

The central system can only synchronise with the card overnight because
it is entirely possible for some of the transactions that need to reach
the central system are still on a vehicle somewhere.

I also presume some new software had to be downloaded into every single
Oyster reader for the introduction of capping - I wonder whether this
has been done in advance with it only becoming "switched on" tomorrow?

Again I'm not totally sure how it works on the bus side of things but
certainly the LUL system allows advance loading and then timed
activation. Advance downloading would be the most sensible thing to do
or else you end having to physically attend to each ETM and thus risk
reducing bus availability. The bus operators hate things like that as it
puts them at risk of penalties for late or cancelled journeys. It's also
a very expensive way of undertaking modifications.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:
As an example all of today's transactions will be processed tonight
so
that the central system has up to date records tomorrow. This is why
for
capping that they ask you to raise any queries about incomplete trips

Hmm. Bought three cards for family, each with £5 prepay on. They are
likely to make lots of journeys by tube and bus on Monday. Will it let
them or will it 'run out' of money on Monday and have it credited back
on Tuesday.

--
Chris

wrote in message
oups.com...

Hmm. Bought three cards for family, each with £5 prepay on. They are
likely to make lots of journeys by tube and bus on Monday. Will it let
them or will it 'run out' of money on Monday and have it credited back
on Tuesday.

The cards and readers are clever enough to work out when the capping
threshold is reached, as long as you touch in and out every time. If you
fail to touch in or out you'll end up with an unresolved journey which may
confusing the capping and you may have to contact the Oystercard helpdesk to
resolve this the following day when all the data has been sent to the
central system.