"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Neil Williams wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:14:41 -0000, "?uzzled" wrote:


Aw crap. As if it wasn't enough that they increased the bus saver by 43%
and
forcing me to buy an oyster prepay, now I'm facing a 25% rise on that as
well. :-(

When will it ever end ?


When Red Ken stops spending money he hasn't got?

You don't get better transport without spending money, and if he already
had the money, we'd already have better transport.


We already have some of the most expensive public transport in Europe
already and yet it still pales in comparison to some other European
countries.

?uzzled wrote:
"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...

Neil Williams wrote:

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:14:41 -0000, "?uzzled" wrote:



Aw crap. As if it wasn't enough that they increased the bus saver by 43%

and

forcing me to buy an oyster prepay, now I'm facing a 25% rise on that as
well. :-(

When will it ever end ?


When Red Ken stops spending money he hasn't got?

You don't get better transport without spending money, and if he already
had the money, we'd already have better transport.

We already have some of the most expensive public transport in Europe
already and yet it still pales in comparison to some other European
countries.

And how exactly is Ken supposed to remedy that? He can't single-handedly
lower the operational costs of UK transport.

As for buses, I think London has a pretty impressive bus system, even
compared to its European counterparts.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:28:32 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote:

As for buses, I think London has a pretty impressive bus system, even
compared to its European counterparts.

I'd say London has a large number of routes and high frequencies
compared with some European cities, but it is not by any stretch of
the imagination a "system", as it is not in general well co-ordinated
with other modes or with other bus routes.

The fact that there is still no multi-modal through single fare shows
this quite nicely, for one.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Neil Williams wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:28:32 +0000, Dave Arquati
wrote:


As for buses, I think London has a pretty impressive bus system, even
compared to its European counterparts.


I'd say London has a large number of routes and high frequencies
compared with some European cities, but it is not by any stretch of
the imagination a "system", as it is not in general well co-ordinated
with other modes or with other bus routes.

Apart from fares, it seems pretty well-coordinated to me. What do you
find un-coordinated about the London bus system?

The fact that there is still no multi-modal through single fare shows
this quite nicely, for one.

How would you price and introduce a multi-modal through single fare on
the London system, bearing in mind that it lacks capacity on the Tube
but has it to spare on the buses?


--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

Dave Arquati wrote in :


How would you price and introduce a multi-modal through single fare on
the London system, bearing in mind that it lacks capacity on the Tube
but has it to spare on the buses?



How about introducing the concept of a two hour journey limit, during which
which your ticket is valid for unlimited boarding? It would be priced at
the most expensive part of the journey (so 80p if you only used the bus
after 9:30, £3.50 if you included a tube journey(s) spanning Z1-6). 80p is
probably a bit cheap for this so I would suggest 120p as a more reasonable
figure.

So on the buses you would have out-and-back £2.40, one day bus pass £3.00,
7 day bus pass £11.00 (£2.20/day based on five day week)

Tube Z1-2 (+all buses) out-and-back £4.20, Off-Peak travelcard £4.70, Peak
£6.00, 7 day travelcard £4.28/day

Tube Z1-6 (+all buses) out-and-back £7.00, Off-peak travelcard £6.00, Peak
£12.00, 7 day travelcard £7.90/day

Tube Z1-6 weekends (+all buses) out-and-back £4.00, Off-peak travelcard
£6.00.

The biggest issues in there (ignoring National Rail for now) are the price
of the Z1-6 Peak Day travelcard (too expensive), the Off-Peak Pre-Pay tube
fares (which are very good value) and the number of people who can now make
a quick trip to the shops at half price....

David

David Jackman wrote:
Dave Arquati wrote in :

How would you price and introduce a multi-modal through single fare on
the London system, bearing in mind that it lacks capacity on the Tube
but has it to spare on the buses?

How about introducing the concept of a two hour journey limit, during which
which your ticket is valid for unlimited boarding? It would be priced at
the most expensive part of the journey (so 80p if you only used the bus
after 9:30, £3.50 if you included a tube journey(s) spanning Z1-6). 80p is
probably a bit cheap for this so I would suggest 120p as a more reasonable
figure.

Ouch. Personally, I'd rather pay 80p per bus journey and fork out £1.60
for the low number of times I need to change buses, rather than £1.20
all the time. £1.20 is getting too close to the Tube fare of £1.70 (Z1)
to make the bus significantly more attractive than the Tube for a Z1
journey, so you might see an undesirable modal shift from bus to Tube.

I'd prefer to see a discount for through bus+Tube journeys, which I
believe TfL are considering for the future.

Incidentally we had a thread on this a few weeks ago.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"?uzzled" wrote in message
...

"Dave Arquati" wrote in message
...
Neil Williams wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:14:41 -0000, "?uzzled" wrote:


Aw crap. As if it wasn't enough that they increased the bus saver by
43%
and
forcing me to buy an oyster prepay, now I'm facing a 25% rise on that
as
well. :-(

When will it ever end ?


When Red Ken stops spending money he hasn't got?

You don't get better transport without spending money, and if he already
had the money, we'd already have better transport.


We already have some of the most expensive public transport in Europe
already and yet it still pales in comparison to some other European
countries.

This is only relevent if the other countries' systems are funded from
the fare-box. They aren't.

tim

In message , ?uzzled
writes
e already have some of the most expensive public transport in Europe
already and yet it still pales in comparison to some other European
countries.

Maybe in our attempt to be advanced we ripped up all the tram tracks
cities had for the modern buses of the day. Now relaying tram tracks
is expensive. Perhaps Johnny foreigner did have some foresight after
all.
--
Clive.