In article net.com
"Roger T." writes:

snip
Funny, when we used to beat the crap outta kids who did this sort of thing,
kids didn't do this sort of thing.

Oh yes they did, as you'll find by studying old newspaper reports. The
difference nowadays is that the population is higher so that factor
by itself tends to increase the amount of offenders even if the rate
stays stationary. Claims by parts of the press that "this sort of thing
never used to happen in the past [when our lot was in power]" are
nearly always contradicted by the the same newspaper's archives.
--
_______
+---------------------------------------------------+ |\\ //|
| Charles Ellson: | | \\ // |
+---------------------------------------------------+ | |
| // \\ |
Alba gu brath |//___\\|

Tom Anderson wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Aaron Borbora wrote:
Sorry for the long and rambling post, it's the product of a brain
overworked by adrenergic transmission, embryology, molecular DNA all in
1 day!

Good grief - not molecular DNA!

Just wait till he learns about non-molecular DNA!
--
Michael Hoffman

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:44:10 -0800, "Roger T."
wrote:



They are a product and reflection of our society and of their parents.
They're not going to to be the offspring of wealthy, attentive parents, I
wager, but the offspring of the those parents who couldn't give a damn
(and have probably never talked to them nicely in their life). We need
more information before we can draw any conclusions about how to deal with
it... but actually catching the culprits would be a good start!

It's societies fault. It's their parent's fault. It's the environment's
fault. It's the school system's fault. It's everybody's and everything's
bloody fault but it's not their fault.

With attitudes like that, no wonder many kids are like they are.

Funny, when we used to beat the crap outta kids who did this sort of thing,
kids didn't do this sort of thing.

I've a feeling that there's a correlation in there somewhere.

You should try reading some contemporary reports from the 1940s, both
during and after WW2. Vandalism and hooliganism did miraculously
appear some time in the 1980s.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War:
http://www.cwgcuser.org.uk/personal/...ra/lu/tuaw.htm
625-Online - classic British television:
http://www.625.org.uk
'Things to Come' - An Incomplete Classic:
http://www.thingstocome.org.uk

..
Surely these acts of vandalism and violence already demean the
civilised society you refer to. The tables have turned - instead the
criminals inflict pain on us now. That's a great solution!

I think a fair number can or could get caught however it would seem but
we have no effective punishment or deterrent from doing it again.

Nick Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:44:10 -0800, "Roger T."
wrote:



They are a product and reflection of our society and of their parents.
They're not going to to be the offspring of wealthy, attentive parents, I
wager, but the offspring of the those parents who couldn't give a damn
(and have probably never talked to them nicely in their life). We need
more information before we can draw any conclusions about how to deal with
it... but actually catching the culprits would be a good start!

It's societies fault. It's their parent's fault. It's the environment's
fault. It's the school system's fault. It's everybody's and everything's
bloody fault but it's not their fault.

With attitudes like that, no wonder many kids are like they are.

Funny, when we used to beat the crap outta kids who did this sort of thing,
kids didn't do this sort of thing.

I've a feeling that there's a correlation in there somewhere.

You should try reading some contemporary reports from the 1940s, both
during and after WW2. Vandalism and hooliganism did miraculously
appear some time in the 1980s.

I expect there's a NOT missing from your last paragraph. I'm old enough
to remember Teddy-Boys ripping up seats in the local cinema.... and
later, of course the sea-side battles between Mods and Rockers.
--
Kat

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote to uk.transport.london on Mon, 28 Feb 2005:

"Aaron Borbora" typed


Sorry for the long and rambling post, it's the product of a brain
overworked
by adrenergic transmission, embryology, molecular DNA all in 1 day!

A DAY! LOOOXURY! In my day, we touched on those subjects in a MORNING!

A MORNING? You don't know you're born... in MY day, we had to get it
done before breakfast, AND go for a six-mile run....
--
"Mrs Redboots"
http://www.amsmyth.demon.co.uk/
Website updated 20 February 2005

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 10:30:09 UTC, James Christie
wrote:

: That's a rather sweeping and misleading generalisation. The population
: of my area has actually gone down over the past few decades, and is
: still going down, yet there is a massive rate of vandalism. How can you
: explain that?

People moving out because of the vandalism?

Ian


--

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Chris
Tolley breathed:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:40:54 +0000, James Christie wrote:

send the little *******s off to the Army.

I always wondered about the logic of that. Here's a sociopath, what
shall we do with him? Ah, the perfect thing, put a rifle in his hand.

The purpose of armed forces is, under disciplined conditions, to kill
people and destroy things, so it is in fact a reasonable solution, as
long as the army has the facilities (and lack of rights-obsessed
restraints) to do the job of training and disciplining them properly.

People who say we shouldn't in any way punish wrongdoers are, IMHO, a
major part of the problem. Convicted criminal should have all their
human rights suspended for the duration of their sentences. Rights come
with responsibilities, and those who abdicate their responsibilities
should also lose their rights.

The reasons yobs chuck bricks and wreck things isn't because they have
mental issues, it's because destroying things, especially other people's
things, with little risk of capture and even less of punishment, is a
fun way to spend a few hours. Most people get their fix of such stuff
watching movies of playing games, but with no restraint of discipline or
responsibility, some act it out for real.

--
- Pyromancer.
- http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk -- Pagan Gothic Rock!
- http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk -- Electronic Metal!
- http://www.revival.stormshadow.com -- The Gothic Revival.

Dave Arquati wrote:

Don't tarnish all youths with the same brush. How often do you read in
the paper "a group of under-18s took the bus normally with no
commotion"? Just because one bunch of idiots caused chaos doesn't mean
that all teenagers are automatically guilty. I'll think you'll find that
most teenagers today still actually know that mugging pensioners is wrong!


Personally, I blame tabloid newspapers.


Tony

Kat wrote:
Nick Cooper wrote:
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:44:10 -0800, "Roger T."
wrote:
You should try reading some contemporary reports from the 1940s, both
during and after WW2. Vandalism and hooliganism did miraculously
appear some time in the 1980s.
I expect there's a NOT missing from your last paragraph. I'm old enough
to remember Teddy-Boys ripping up seats in the local cinema.... and
later, of course the sea-side battles between Mods and Rockers.

Don't forget the "peaky blinders", a term used to describe members of
gangs of young, single males in late nineteenth century Birmingham.
Similarly, Manchester had its scuttlers and London its hooligans. Legend
has it that gang members stitched razor blades into the peaks of their
caps which were then used as offensive weapons, and this is just one
account amongst many of how the name originated. During the Victorian
and Edwardian periods many references were made by court reporters to
men having the appearance of a 'peaky'. Reports from the same period
state that foul-mouthed peakies often roamed the streets of Birmingham
in drunken gangs, insulting and mugging passers-by.
--
Bruce Fletcher
(To reply replace figure 1 with letter i)
Stronsay, Orkney, UK
http://www.stronsay.co.uk/claremont
Growing old is mandatory.
Growing up is optional.