On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:16:22 +0000 (UTC), "Brimstone"
wrote:

Because integration isn't permitted.

A cynical, and wholly incorrect, opinion.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:19:08 +0200, Alan (in Brussels) wrote:
On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact that the former
'double arrow' symbol still widely used to identify National Rail stations
does not appear on the trams' relevant destination blinds, eg Elmers End,
Beckenham Junc. and Wimbledon. Here in Belgium, the corresponding symbol
provides a convenient way of emphasising the way road and rail services are
integrated. Is this an example of the 'not invented here' syndrome, or is
there some other simple explanation?

I have noticed recently that there's a little blob appearing next the
the double arrow symbol in modern usage. I take this blob to be an R in
a circle, so perhaps there is an issue over trademark protection or
licensing which makes it less hassle and less expensive not to use the
symbol.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p12686827.html
(Quite a steep gradient: Chester Zoo Overhead Railway - Train 1, 2000)

"Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message
...

On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact
that the former 'double arrow' symbol still widely used
to identify National Rail stations does not appear on the
trams' relevant destination blinds, eg Elmers End,
Beckenham Junc. and Wimbledon. Here in Belgium,
the corresponding symbol provides a convenient way
of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated.

But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service. District Line
trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK, had a BR symbol on the destination
blind, so why would you expect Tramlink to have one?

The double-arrow and roundel symbols are used on the front of buses as a
short hand for "Station", and generally bus blinds have changed overnight
from displaying "Station" to using the symbols. Therefore their presence on
a bus blind informs that the bus terminates at Mytown Station, as opposed to
Mytown ASDA or Mytown Library or some vaguely specified part of Mytown.
There is no need for such a designation on a tram route where every stop has
a precise name.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

John Rowland wrote:
"Alan (in Brussels)" wrote in message
...

On a recent trip by Tramink, I was struck by the fact
that the former 'double arrow' symbol still widely used
to identify National Rail stations does not appear on the
trams' relevant destination blinds, eg Elmers End,
Beckenham Junc. and Wimbledon. Here in Belgium,
the corresponding symbol provides a convenient way
of emphasising the way road and rail services are integrated.

But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service. District Line
trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK, had a BR symbol on the
destination blind, so why would you expect Tramlink to have one?

But LT/LU maps have long had an indication on their maps of an interchange
facility with the mainline railway.

"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
John Rowland wrote:

But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service.
District Line trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK,
had a BR symbol on the destination blind,
so why would you expect Tramlink to have one?

But LT/LU maps have long had an indication on their
maps of an interchange facility with the mainline railway.

And so do Tramlink maps. So what's your point?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

John Rowland wrote:
"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
John Rowland wrote:

But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service.
District Line trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK,
had a BR symbol on the destination blind,
so why would you expect Tramlink to have one?

But LT/LU maps have long had an indication on their
maps of an interchange facility with the mainline railway.

And so do Tramlink maps. So what's your point?

That there are methods of indicating interchange facilities without it being
on the vehicle's destination blind.

In the message ...
"Brimstone" wrote:

John Rowland wrote:
"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
John Rowland wrote:

But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service.
District Line trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK,
had a BR symbol on the destination blind,
so why would you expect Tramlink to have one?

But LT/LU maps have long had an indication on their
maps of an interchange facility with the mainline railway.

And so do Tramlink maps. So what's your point?

That there are methods of indicating interchange facilities without it
being
on the vehicle's destination blind.

Indeed, and I am very favorably impressed by the 'semi-geographic' style of
display currently used at key points on the London bus network. But it's
very noticable that a significant proportion of passengers still seek
confirmation from the driver that the bus is actually going where they want
to get to.

On Tramlink, the dot matrix displays at stops provide valuable real-time
information - but in a very compressed form because of their limited
capacity - so that they fall back to the advice to observe the tram's
destinantion blind. In fact, it was because *the trams' destination blinds
closely resemble those on buses* (rather than the scrolling dot-matix
displays on the latest EMUs) that I wondered why the double-arrow symbol
doesn't appear on them.

Regards,

- Alan (in Brussels)

In message , "Alan (in Brussels)"
writes
Indeed, and I am very favorably impressed by the 'semi-geographic'
style of display currently used at key points on the London bus network.
A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when the
next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth. London bus passengers
have luxuries most of us can only dream about.
--
Clive.

Clive Coleman wrote:
In message , "Alan (in Brussels)"
writes
Indeed, and I am very favorably impressed by the 'semi-geographic'
style of display currently used at key points on the London bus
network.
A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when
the next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth. London bus
passengers have luxuries most of us can only dream about.

Quite, and most of them don't realise it. All they do is whinge.

In message , Clive Coleman
writes

A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when
the next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth.

The system is called Countdown, and about 2000 bus stops are equipped so
far (which leaves an awful lot still to go - I think only well-used
stops will be equipped).

London bus passengers have luxuries most of us can only dream about.

Of course, when Countdown goes wrong or displays the wrong times, or
doesn't display any time because some bus operators have not yet
equipped their vehicles, it can sometimes seem worse than no display at
all - but it does seem to be getting better at our local bus stop.

--
Paul Terry