In the message ...
"Brimstone" wrote:

John Rowland wrote:
"Brimstone" wrote in message
...
John Rowland wrote:

But Tramlink is not a road service, it's a rail service.
District Line trains to Wimbledon have never, AFAIK,
had a BR symbol on the destination blind,
so why would you expect Tramlink to have one?

But LT/LU maps have long had an indication on their
maps of an interchange facility with the mainline railway.

And so do Tramlink maps. So what's your point?

That there are methods of indicating interchange facilities without it
being
on the vehicle's destination blind.

Indeed, and I am very favorably impressed by the 'semi-geographic' style of
display currently used at key points on the London bus network. But it's
very noticable that a significant proportion of passengers still seek
confirmation from the driver that the bus is actually going where they want
to get to.

On Tramlink, the dot matrix displays at stops provide valuable real-time
information - but in a very compressed form because of their limited
capacity - so that they fall back to the advice to observe the tram's
destinantion blind. In fact, it was because *the trams' destination blinds
closely resemble those on buses* (rather than the scrolling dot-matix
displays on the latest EMUs) that I wondered why the double-arrow symbol
doesn't appear on them.

Regards,

- Alan (in Brussels)

In message , "Alan (in Brussels)"
writes
Indeed, and I am very favorably impressed by the 'semi-geographic'
style of display currently used at key points on the London bus network.
A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when the
next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth. London bus passengers
have luxuries most of us can only dream about.
--
Clive.

Clive Coleman wrote:
In message , "Alan (in Brussels)"
writes
Indeed, and I am very favorably impressed by the 'semi-geographic'
style of display currently used at key points on the London bus
network.
A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when
the next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth. London bus
passengers have luxuries most of us can only dream about.

Quite, and most of them don't realise it. All they do is whinge.

In message , Clive Coleman
writes

A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when
the next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth.

The system is called Countdown, and about 2000 bus stops are equipped so
far (which leaves an awful lot still to go - I think only well-used
stops will be equipped).

London bus passengers have luxuries most of us can only dream about.

Of course, when Countdown goes wrong or displays the wrong times, or
doesn't display any time because some bus operators have not yet
equipped their vehicles, it can sometimes seem worse than no display at
all - but it does seem to be getting better at our local bus stop.

--
Paul Terry

Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Clive Coleman
writes

A bit off topic I know, but I was astounded to see a display of when
the next bus was due in a bus shelter in Wandsworth.


The system is called Countdown, and about 2000 bus stops are equipped so
far (which leaves an awful lot still to go - I think only well-used
stops will be equipped).

London bus passengers have luxuries most of us can only dream about.


Of course, when Countdown goes wrong or displays the wrong times, or
doesn't display any time because some bus operators have not yet
equipped their vehicles, it can sometimes seem worse than no display at
all - but it does seem to be getting better at our local bus stop.

I've noticed an improvement in Countdown information too - I most often
see a Countdown display at Piccadilly Circus, but I've noticed a fairly
decent accuracy level at other West End stops too. I wonder if anything
has changed behind the scenes?

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , Paul Terry
writes
Of course, when Countdown goes wrong or displays the wrong times, or
doesn't display any time because some bus operators have not yet
equipped their vehicles, it can sometimes seem worse than no display at
all - but it does seem to be getting better at our local bus stop.
I suppose that when you get two hour intervals between buses as we do
before service drops off in the evening, it would be annoying to know
you could have stayed at home for that extra cup of tea/coffee/alcohol.
--
Clive.

In message , Clive Coleman
writes

I suppose that when you get two hour intervals between buses as we do
before service drops off in the evening, it would be annoying to know
you could have stayed at home for that extra cup of tea/coffee/alcohol.

Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still
cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of
London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes
off-peak, and night buses stopping within short walking distance every
10 minutes throughout the night. A bit further up the road there are 36
buses an hour each way in the peak period.

I say all this not to be boastful, but to point out that only very
high-frequency operation will persuade people to move from cars to
buses. I wouldn't dream of driving into central London any more, nor
would any of my neighbours - the bus (+ train) is more reliable,
quicker, cheaper and more pleasurable - it is MUCH easier to read the
paper when on the bus than when driving, for instance, and it is rather
fun to strike up the odd conversation with a stranger instead of being
in the hermetically sealed mobile box that we call a car, interacting
with others only by honking the horn or flashing the lights in anger.

Having said all that, I fully understand why folk in outer suburban and
rural areas could hardly exist without a bus - there has to be some sort
of critical mass to tip the balance towards public transport. Once that
happens, the results can be astonishing - something like Countdown then
just becomes the icing on the cake.

--
Paul Terry

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:

In message , Clive Coleman
writes

I suppose that when you get two hour intervals between buses as we do
before service drops off in the evening, it would be annoying to know
you could have stayed at home for that extra cup of tea/coffee/alcohol.

Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still
cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of
London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes
off-peak,

Sounds like where i live.

and night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes
throughout the night.

Okay, now that's impressive; i take it there are three routes, each coming
every half-hour? You must live in a fairly significant suburban centre.

Having said all that, I fully understand why folk in outer suburban and
rural areas could hardly exist without a bus

ITYM 'car', no?

- there has to be some sort of critical mass to tip the balance towards
public transport.

Indeed. In my old 'hood, on a sunday, there is nominally 0.5 bph from the
town railway station to my village, and the arrival time is more or less
random.

tom

--
No hay banda

In message ,
Tom Anderson writes

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:

Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still
cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of
London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes
off-peak,

Sounds like where i live.

and night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes
throughout the night.

Okay, now that's impressive; i take it there are three routes, each coming
every half-hour?

Yes.

You must live in a fairly significant suburban centre.

I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion of
open space than any other (Richmond).

Having said all that, I fully understand why folk in outer suburban and
rural areas could hardly exist without a bus

ITYM 'car', no?

Oops, yes!

- there has to be some sort of critical mass to tip the balance towards
public transport.

Indeed. In my old 'hood, on a sunday, there is nominally 0.5 bph from the
town railway station to my village, and the arrival time is more or less
random.

--
Paul Terry

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:14:35 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still
cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of
London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes
off-peak, and night buses stopping within short walking distance every
10 minutes throughout the night. A bit further up the road there are 36
buses an hour each way in the peak period.

Some London Night Bus routes do have a wonderful service - erm no,
make that a 'wonderfully high frequency'.

With the N38, using from Angel for example, there are 12 buses per
hour from 2am to 5am - an average of every 6 minutes - for the
weeknight service.

This doesn't give the whole picture are there are some odd frequencies
thrown in: 2:02, 2:03 [...] 2:32, 2:33 [...] 3:02, 3:03 [...] 3:30,
3:33, 3:36, [...] 4:01, 4:03 [...] 4:33, 4:34.
(From http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...__000022b8.pdf)

--
Cheers,

Jason.

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