In message , Clive Coleman
writes

I suppose that when you get two hour intervals between buses as we do
before service drops off in the evening, it would be annoying to know
you could have stayed at home for that extra cup of tea/coffee/alcohol.

Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still
cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of
London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes
off-peak, and night buses stopping within short walking distance every
10 minutes throughout the night. A bit further up the road there are 36
buses an hour each way in the peak period.

I say all this not to be boastful, but to point out that only very
high-frequency operation will persuade people to move from cars to
buses. I wouldn't dream of driving into central London any more, nor
would any of my neighbours - the bus (+ train) is more reliable,
quicker, cheaper and more pleasurable - it is MUCH easier to read the
paper when on the bus than when driving, for instance, and it is rather
fun to strike up the odd conversation with a stranger instead of being
in the hermetically sealed mobile box that we call a car, interacting
with others only by honking the horn or flashing the lights in anger.

Having said all that, I fully understand why folk in outer suburban and
rural areas could hardly exist without a bus - there has to be some sort
of critical mass to tip the balance towards public transport. Once that
happens, the results can be astonishing - something like Countdown then
just becomes the icing on the cake.

--
Paul Terry

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:

In message , Clive Coleman
writes

I suppose that when you get two hour intervals between buses as we do
before service drops off in the evening, it would be annoying to know
you could have stayed at home for that extra cup of tea/coffee/alcohol.

Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still
cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of
London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes
off-peak,

Sounds like where i live.

and night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes
throughout the night.

Okay, now that's impressive; i take it there are three routes, each coming
every half-hour? You must live in a fairly significant suburban centre.

Having said all that, I fully understand why folk in outer suburban and
rural areas could hardly exist without a bus

ITYM 'car', no?

- there has to be some sort of critical mass to tip the balance towards
public transport.

Indeed. In my old 'hood, on a sunday, there is nominally 0.5 bph from the
town railway station to my village, and the arrival time is more or less
random.

tom

--
No hay banda

In message ,
Tom Anderson writes

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:

Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still
cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of
London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes
off-peak,

Sounds like where i live.

and night buses stopping within short walking distance every 10 minutes
throughout the night.

Okay, now that's impressive; i take it there are three routes, each coming
every half-hour?

Yes.

You must live in a fairly significant suburban centre.

I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion of
open space than any other (Richmond).

Having said all that, I fully understand why folk in outer suburban and
rural areas could hardly exist without a bus

ITYM 'car', no?

Oops, yes!

- there has to be some sort of critical mass to tip the balance towards
public transport.

Indeed. In my old 'hood, on a sunday, there is nominally 0.5 bph from the
town railway station to my village, and the arrival time is more or less
random.

--
Paul Terry

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:

In message ,
Tom Anderson writes

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:

Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays")
still cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the
centre of London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5
minutes off-peak, and night buses stopping within short walking
distance every 10 minutes throughout the night.

Okay, now that's impressive; i take it there are three routes, each coming
every half-hour?

Yes.

You must live in a fairly significant suburban centre.

I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion of
open space than any other (Richmond).

Even Waltham Forest? How about one of those godforsaken Metropolitan Kent
places?

Anyway, i take it you live within short walking distance of one of the
town centres in Richmond.

Thinking about it a bit more, perhaps three routes isn't as exceptional as
i'd thought. There were four to where i lived in Hackney, and there are at
least three to Holloway - the problem is that only one or two were ever
any use to me, but that's due to the fairly narrow range of places i
needed to get home from late at night!

tom

--
It is a formal cultural policy to show unreasonable bias towards any woman who is both attractive and wierd.

In message ,
Tom Anderson writes

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:

I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion of
open space than any other (Richmond).

Even Waltham Forest?

There is more than 5,000 acres of public open space in Richmond - about
14% of the total for Greater London. I believe that is a larger amount
than in any other London borough:

http://www.richmond.gov.uk/depts/env...ks/default.htm

My point is that Richmond is an area of relatively low population
density in London terms (30 per hectare, compared with 56 per hectare in
Waltham Forest, for example). Despite this, much of the area can sustain
high-frequency bus services.

I don't want to over-simplify, though: part of the reason is that wide
tracts of open parkland separate areas of quite high-density housing and
that is an ideal combination for high-frequency bus routes.

Anyway, i take it you live within short walking distance of one of the
town centres in Richmond.

Not really. We just have a lot of buses.

--
Paul Terry

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:

In message ,
Tom Anderson writes

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Paul Terry wrote:

I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion
of open space than any other (Richmond).

Even Waltham Forest?

There is more than 5,000 acres of public open space in Richmond - about
14% of the total for Greater London.

Eek! That is quite a bit. Damn you with your fancy great park! And what
have we got up here? Flipping Finsbury Park is what!

I don't want to over-simplify, though: part of the reason is that wide
tracts of open parkland separate areas of quite high-density housing and
that is an ideal combination for high-frequency bus routes.

Quite!

tom

--
Few technologies will ever stand up to the will of adolescents trying to do things they're told they're not allowed to do. -- Scott Berkun

In message ,
Tom Anderson writes
I live in a London borough that I think claims a higher proportion
of open space than any other (Richmond).
Richmond Park, now there's a nice bit of land to concrete over and make
a park and ride from.
--
Clive.

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

There is more than 5,000 acres of public open space in Richmond -
about 14% of the total for Greater London.

Eek! That is quite a bit. Damn you with your fancy great park! And what
have we got up here? Flipping Finsbury Park is what!

It's not all his. Richmond Park is also in Kingston and Wandsworth
boroughs (just).

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:14:35 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still
cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of
London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes
off-peak, and night buses stopping within short walking distance every
10 minutes throughout the night. A bit further up the road there are 36
buses an hour each way in the peak period.

Some London Night Bus routes do have a wonderful service - erm no,
make that a 'wonderfully high frequency'.

With the N38, using from Angel for example, there are 12 buses per
hour from 2am to 5am - an average of every 6 minutes - for the
weeknight service.

This doesn't give the whole picture are there are some odd frequencies
thrown in: 2:02, 2:03 [...] 2:32, 2:33 [...] 3:02, 3:03 [...] 3:30,
3:33, 3:36, [...] 4:01, 4:03 [...] 4:33, 4:34.
(From http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...__000022b8.pdf)

--
Cheers,

Jason.

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet and in e-mail?

"Jason" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:14:35 +0100, Paul Terry
wrote:

Two sets of friends in North Yorks ("one bus a week on Thursdays") still
cannot get over the fact that despite being 8 miles from the centre of
London, we have buses every 3 minutes in the peak, every 5 minutes
off-peak, and night buses stopping within short walking distance every
10 minutes throughout the night. A bit further up the road there are 36
buses an hour each way in the peak period.

Some London Night Bus routes do have a wonderful service - erm no,
make that a 'wonderfully high frequency'.

With the N38, using from Angel for example, there are 12 buses per
hour from 2am to 5am - an average of every 6 minutes - for the
weeknight service.

This doesn't give the whole picture are there are some odd frequencies
thrown in: 2:02, 2:03 [...] 2:32, 2:33 [...] 3:02, 3:03 [...] 3:30,
3:33, 3:36, [...] 4:01, 4:03 [...] 4:33, 4:34.
(From http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/use...__000022b8.pdf)

--
Cheers,

Jason.

I just tried it and it gave a even spread of buses, also the timetable
suggests they are fairly well spread http://www.busmap.org/tt4/N038.pdf

Paul