I have several relatives who have, at different times, been on the new
Southern trains (on the Brighton/Portsmouth line) when all the doors have
stuck.

Is this a common problem? Is the cause known but too expensive to sort? Has
anyone addressed the issue of what could result if it coincided with a fire?

"Vernon" wrote in message
...
I have several relatives who have, at different times, been on the new
Southern trains (on the Brighton/Portsmouth line) when all the doors have
stuck.

Is this a common problem? Is the cause known but too expensive to sort?
Has
anyone addressed the issue of what could result if it coincided with a
fire?

Doors have been a recurring problem with what are termed "plug-type" doors
since they were first introduced at the beginning of the 1990s. It's
generally to do with getting the pressure correct on all the door sets so
that the door, when closed, sucks in to the bodyside and is held there, so
that the door interlock (central door locking) can be activated by the
driver or guard to secure the train.

The doors can appear to be set correctly when on a depot or works but once
the train is subjected to curving and reverse curving, banking etc. the
bodysides can flex very slightly - but enough to throw out the door
adjustments. Similarly, when stopping on slightly banked tracks in stations
the "throw" of the train can upset the delicate adjustment.

Generally, after a period in traffic, the doors have been adjusted and
readjusted until they are at their optimum setting. The Electrostar trains
are still being introduced on Southern services, several new units per week,
and are still going through their shakedown period in service. From
experience with all other units over the past fifteen years it is to be
expected that the majority of the problems will gradually disappear,
although occasional problems with individual door sets still occasionally
occur. There should be no safety inplications in the case of fire - the
problems are most often with securing the doors, rather than releasing them.
There is a manual override for freeing the doors, in addition to the
emergency door releases in each vestibule.

"Jack Taylor" wrote in message
...

There should be no safety inplications in the case of fire - the
problems are most often with securing the doors, rather than releasing
them.
There is a manual override for freeing the doors, in addition to the
emergency door releases in each vestibule.


The problems to which I am referring have all related to opening.

The latest of which I am aware occured about 0800 on Saturday morning at
Gatwick when a London bound train was stuck for nearly half and hour before
being withdrawn from service.

The report I had from someone who was on it was that it took staff about ten
minutes just to get the doors open hence my concern about fire safety.

The fundamental problem is that South Central (I refuse to insult the
British Railways operator by using the new name) does not trust its
train crews and door releases have to be done by GPS and not a human
being. This adds an unnessecary element to go wrong.

When the driver presses door release the train has to be certain its
where it is meant to be before a release will occur. If it dont know
where it is you have to hope the driver can get an emergency release,
if he cannot get one of those then its waiting time.

Take the GPS out and put it back to the guard/driver to open the doors
and YAHTZEE you have less door related problems.

In my opinion a case of being too complicated and therefore shooting
itself in the foot!

wrote in message
oups.com...
The fundamental problem is that South Central (I refuse to insult the
British Railways operator by using the new name) does not trust its
train crews and door releases have to be done by GPS and not a human
being. This adds an unnessecary element to go wrong.

When the driver presses door release the train has to be certain its
where it is meant to be before a release will occur. If it dont know
where it is you have to hope the driver can get an emergency release,
if he cannot get one of those then its waiting time.

Take the GPS out and put it back to the guard/driver to open the doors
and YAHTZEE you have less door related problems.

In my opinion a case of being too complicated and therefore shooting
itself in the foot!

Sounds like a likely scenario because apparently the on-board "next station"
display was showing Ford as it was approaching Gatwick which suggests that
the GPS had really got itself screwed up..

They seemed to have overlooked the 'human being' factor. SWT dont need
any fancy GPS door opening on their DESIROs and so I dont see why it
should needed on Electrostars.

As I said before the 377s are decent enough trains but they do not need
half the fancy computer stuff on them and a little faith in the
traincrews to do their job would have solved a lot of problems.

The fundamental problem is that South Central (I refuse to insult the
British Railways operator by using the new name) does not trust its
train crews and door releases have to be done by GPS and not a human
being. This adds an unnessecary element to go wrong.

Sounds about right. Technology for its own sake and solutions looking
for problems are everywhere these days thanks to suppliers chucking in
as much as they can to the design make as much money as they can
and dim witted customers falling for it. I guess railways are no
exception.

B2003

Vernon wrote:
The report I had from someone who was on it was that it took staff
about ten
minutes just to get the doors open hence my concern about fire
safety.

There is a way to open a specific door instantly (by using the door
emergency open button / lever) as explained in the safety notices which
are now on all trains. It's worrying to hear that you haven't noticed
and familiarised yourself with the poster because it could well save
your life.

The staff on the train taking 10 minutes were quite probably trying to
open all doors at the same time (to prevent a crush) and to not have to
use the emergency releases (because the train would then be stuck in
the platform until fixed)

"Chris!" wrote in message
oups.com...

Vernon wrote:
The report I had from someone who was on it was that it took staff
about ten
minutes just to get the doors open hence my concern about fire
safety.

There is a way to open a specific door instantly (by using the door
emergency open button / lever) as explained in the safety notices which
are now on all trains. It's worrying to hear that you haven't noticed
and familiarised yourself with the poster because it could well save
your life.

As I say, it was a close relation who was on the train, not me. I will
mention that for future reference.

The staff on the train taking 10 minutes were quite probably trying to
open all doors at the same time (to prevent a crush) and to not have to
use the emergency releases (because the train would then be stuck in
the platform until fixed)

The train did eventually end up stuck - and taken out of service.

generally to do with getting the pressure correct on all the door sets
so
that the door, when closed, sucks in to the bodyside and is held
there, so
that the door interlock (central door locking) can be activated by the

driver or guard to secure the train.

I think I'm missing the problem here. Why can't the doors just have
more
than enough pressure to close them, then theres no problem whether the
train is flexing, banking or upside down. Why do they have to have the
exact amount?

B2003