On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:50:24 +0100, Graeme Wall
wrote:

You obviously don't commute to work on a subsidised season ticket on
subsidised transport.

No, I use a bicycle or car most of the time. However, if I did use
the bus regularly (the only public transport option) a season ticket
isn't as massively different in price from buying singles as I think
we're looking at here, and is available to anyone who chooses to buy
one, commuter or otherwise.

The single tickets, OTOH, are not subsidised as such as it is a
commercial bus service.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

"Alan J. Flavell" wrote in message
. gla.ac.uk...
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005, Peter Masson wrote:

It is in this context that H Connect may well offer concessionary
fares for airport employees, while charging casual passengers, and
airline passengers, fares which will not abstract revenue from H Ex.

On the other hand if employees enjoy concessionary fares relative to
the general public, I suspect that the Revenue would consider it as
a taxable benefit. (IANAL).

No, because as has already been pointed out it is the employers
own trains they are riding on. It used to be the case that this
would be taxed at the commercial fare (you might recall that
LT workers had to pay a tax charge on their concessionary fare
cards) but someone challenged this in court and won. So now
the tax charge is based upon the marginal cost of allowing staff
to use your product, which in the case of an unrestricted
access transport service is nil.

tim

"Peter Masson" wrote in message
...

AIUI as part of the planning consent for T5 BAA have obligations to ensure
that specific proportions of people employed at the airport (not just BAA
employees) and of airline passengers access the airport by public
transport.

I reviewed the planning permission (SoS decision) and S.106 undertaking for
T5 some time ago. From memory, their obligation is to implement a Green
Travel Plan, approved by LB Hillingdon. From memory, as with most GTPs,
there are targets set for journeys to be undertaken by a particular mode.

Just because there are targets, that does not mean that there are penalties
for failing to meet those targets! But in this case, unlike some other
instances, I do not think there was one particular aspect, or the whole
operation that could not be undertaken if the targets were not met. If I'm
bored, I'll go back and have a look at the decision letter/legal agreement
one day. May well be blogged by one of the Heathrow NIMBY websites; I've
not looked.

"Tony Polson" wrote in message
...

One of the busiest stations on the Piccadilly Line is Hatton Cross,

I find that very hard to believe (except when T4 station is shut, as it is
now).

which serves the maintenance area to the East
of the airport, adjacent to the A30. Huge numbers
of people get on and off Piccadilly Line services
here, and the assumption must be that they are
airport workers.

Or residents of Feltham or Ashford.

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

In message , Graeme Wall
writes
Heathrow has the working population of a small town who all have to commute
as there is no living accomodation within the 'town centre'.
Nit-picking I know but it actually has the working population of a
largish town. Apparently twice as many people work at Heathrow as live
in Stratford or Shrewsbury (source: presentation by BA, not BAA, staff
to a lecture I attended last year.)
--
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In message
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:48:14 +0100, Graeme Wall
wrote:

Heathrow has the working population of a small town who all have to
commute as there is no living accomodation within the 'town centre'.

True. That statement can also be applied to large industrial estates
like Trafford Park, however.

How many people work in Trafford Park? IIRC the working population of
Heathrow is around 6-8 thousand.


--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:37:43 +0100, Graeme Wall
wrote:

How many people work in Trafford Park? IIRC the working population of
Heathrow is around 6-8 thousand.

According to the link below, there are 7,000 in the Trafford Centre
alone, not to mention the huge industrial area of the Park.

If I've not read it incorrectly, it is claimed that some 40,000 work
in the entire Park - making it rather bigger in employment terms than
Heathrow. That it was so huge (I was thinking more like 10,000 off
the top of my head) surprised me greatly.

Not only that, but Trafford Park has very little in the way of rail
passenger transport. I would suspect that the great majority of its
lower-paid employees arrive by bus - though admittedly there are
(unlike at Heathrow) vast swathes of free parking and few security
concerns.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?F274227FA

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message , Neil Williams
writes

According to the link below, there are 7,000 in the Trafford Centre
alone, not to mention the huge industrial area of the Park.

If I've not read it incorrectly, it is claimed that some 40,000 work
in the entire Park - making it rather bigger in employment terms than
Heathrow.

See the following reference in Hansard for November 2001:

http://www.publications.parliament.u...t/11105-23.htm

Quote:

According to figures published last year, direct employment at
Heathrow is about 68,000. For every person directly employed at
the airport, it is estimated that there are three in the supply
chain.

--
Paul Terry

In message
(Neil Williams) wrote:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:37:43 +0100, Graeme Wall
wrote:

How many people work in Trafford Park? IIRC the working population of
Heathrow is around 6-8 thousand.

According to the link below, there are 7,000 in the Trafford Centre
alone, not to mention the huge industrial area of the Park.

If I've not read it incorrectly, it is claimed that some 40,000 work
in the entire Park - making it rather bigger in employment terms than
Heathrow. That it was so huge (I was thinking more like 10,000 off
the top of my head) surprised me greatly.

Surprises me as well, but I've only visited the football ground. Reading
further the figure appears to be 44,000!


Not only that, but Trafford Park has very little in the way of rail
passenger transport. I would suspect that the great majority of its
lower-paid employees arrive by bus - though admittedly there are
(unlike at Heathrow) vast swathes of free parking and few security
concerns.

And rather more than two access roads I suspect.


--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

On Tue, 26 Apr 2005, Neil Williams wrote:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:37:43 +0100, Graeme Wall
wrote:

How many people work in Trafford Park? IIRC the working population of
Heathrow is around 6-8 thousand.

According to the link below, there are 7,000 in the Trafford Centre
alone, not to mention the huge industrial area of the Park.

If I've not read it incorrectly, it is claimed that some 40,000 work in
the entire Park - making it rather bigger in employment terms than
Heathrow. That it was so huge (I was thinking more like 10,000 off the
top of my head) surprised me greatly.

Interesting. Any idea how those numbers compare to:

- Provincial towns (eg Ashford, Basingstoke, Colchester)
- Provincial city centres (eg Manchester city centre)
- the City

?

Not only that, but Trafford Park has very little in the way of rail
passenger transport.

For now - there's a good chance of a tram line, isn't there?

tom

--
What were the skies like when you were young?