Tom Anderson wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2005, londoncityslicker wrote:

"ONscotland" wrote in message
ups.com...

Last week I bought a Travelcard and a little camera and went to North
Woolwich.

I've been down there by bike twice in the last month. It hardly feels
like London at all.

I was there checking out how the DLR extension was progressing some time
ago, and I found it extremely odd.

I can't seem to find out what will happen to this section of track
when the DLR opens? I assume it will be closed as you can see the new
DLR section from the train.

Well it's almost certain that that the DLR will take over the line from
Canning Town to Stratford.

Question: what's going to happen to the existing Stratford branch when
the new one opens?

Nothing in particular. Services from Stratford via West Ham will only
run to Beckton/Dagenham Dock or Woolwich Arsenal. The existing Stratford
branch will get a frequency improvement in any case, as the existing DLR
platform will be moved and rebuilt as two platforms.

The rest of the line from Canning Town to North Woolwich is likely to be
closed.

And then to become part of Crossrail.

Yes, physically, although since it will only serve Custom House station,
it won't provide any local journey opportunities that were provided by
the Silverlink service (not that it really matters, with the DLR route
opening soon).

Also, paging Dave Arquati: TfL have changed their site layout a bit, so
your link to the map of proposed stations on the new Stratford DLR line
is broken; it's now he

http://developments.dlr.co.uk/extens...stations.shtml

Silly TfL. They've also broken all the links to their departmental press
offices on their own site, which is annoying.

And while i've got your attention, talking about Jubilee line to
Thamesmead, you say:

"Tunnel layout at North Greenwich permits the relatively easy
construction of a junction for a branch intended to serve the Isle of
Dogs across the river followed by Thamesmead."

Do you really mean that? A line from North Greenwich to the Isle of Dogs
to Thamesmead would be a most extraordinary shape! Did you by any chance
mean "to serve the Royal Docks across the river"?

Silly Dave. Check now and it's almost as though I'd never made the
mistake in the first place...

However, the whole area is ripe for regeneration. Some of which is
already past planning stage. Just take a trip down there and you'll
see vast areas of riverside land ripe for new homes and
offices/warehouses. It already started with furlong Homes starting
their development. The DLR extension itself will also breathe some
life into the area. The area itself is well connected. Woolwich Ferry
over to the south of London, North and South Circular nearby, M25 and
M11 just minutes away. City Airport is so close. you are minutes from
Canary Wharf and not far from The City.

I was thinking about this yesterday, when i was waiting for the ferry. I
was wondering what the area would be like in a hundred or two years;
Ken's masterplan basically makes the area the focus for London's growth,
so are we going to see it slowly turning into a new west end? After all,
it's close to Docklands and the City, it's getting good transport links,
so why not? Will we see the banks at Woolwich lined with glittering
skyscrapers, a blaze of neon and phosphor at night? Will Dartford be the
new Ealing? Grays the new Harrow? The royal docks the new Hyde park?
Greenwich the new South Bank? You can object that the area's too far
from the bulk of London, but what will two hundred years of growth and
migration do to that? Will another three hundred years see London a city
wrapped around the Thames from Windsor to Canvey Island, with the living
heart of it being the places we're talking about now, and Trafalgar
Square just a quaint tourist attraction in the Old Town? tourists taking
boat trips out west to the Tower? West End Lane and Upper Street quiet
strolls for the retired people who populate the areas around them?
Piccadilly Circus bulldozed for an out-of-town shopping centre?

I'd say... nope. Although Woolwich will become a significant local
centre, I reckon it'll be more of a Hammersmith than a West End.
Although transport links in the east are improving, it would take a
truly massive level of investment for them to reach the levels that the
centre currently enjoys. It's possible, but since the central stuff is
already there, I'm not convinced that it will shift the focus of London
completely. Canary Wharf is set to become yet more important though -
but I don't think that will be to the detriment of the City (or indeed
the West End!).

London has been growing with its centre placed on the City for many
hundreds of years; it's probably not shifting any time soon.

This is all, of course, my humble opinion.

And while we're on the subject of the ferry: will the Thames Gateway
bridge provide a viable alternative for the crossing of the north/south
circular over the Thames? It will at the north side, but how would you
get from the south end to the A205? It's not intended for that job, but
if i were a lorry driver, i'd be quite tempted to use it rather than
wait for the ferry. Are we going to see traffic levels on the A2016 and
A206 skyrocket?

Most likely, and I think this is something the opponents of the bridge
are rather concerned about.

Another PS to Dave: TfL gateway bridge site now at:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/thames-gat...gb-intro.shtml

Arrrrgh (but thanks for pointing it out)!

All in all a lot of positives. So if I were the planners, I would keep
the NLL going so when the regeneration does come around they don't
need to replan things and build "new" railways and trams when they
already have a system in place.

The current plan trades a heavy rail line with 4 tph and 4-car trains
for a light rail line with 5 tph (to begin with - 10 tph then 15 tph
later) and tiny trains plus, a bit later on, a heavy rail line with 12
tph and 10-12 car trains; the current line goes to Stratford and north
and west London, whereas the new lines would go to Stratford, Docklands,
Lewisham, and central and west London. If anything, i think that's going
to increase provision to the area. Eventually.

I agree. The planned improvements are very suitable for the planned
developments, particularly trading in the NLL infrastructure for
Crossrail and feeding traffic into Custom House from the eastern
developments via the DLR Dagenham Dock extension.

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London